most of you (hopefully) already know about Microsoft's Xbox 360, Sony's PS3, and Nintendo's Revolution(which is still a mystery) and Game Boy Micro. So i just want to ask a simple question: WHO DO YOU THINK WILL COME OUT ON TOP???

There is a gaming forum. You post video game stuff in that one, not here.

On the day that the new consoles come out I'm going to camp out infront of the local best buy with a colecovision set up, maybe I can convince them to let me set that up near one of their main displays. Anyone who passes me holding a new console I will verbally berate for not being hardcore enough.

its hard to tell because very little is known about next gen consoles yet, but as i love the 'Cube I'll say the Revolution for now...

i'm a nintendo loyalist. no matter what happens. i'm nintendo all the way! so revolution for me.



(but that doesn't mean i won't ALSO purchase a ps3. ;)) (mostly cause of square)











fuck xbox (even though i love Rare)

Sony, because they know how to hype there products. But I will most likly play them all. Except Game Boy Micro.

Haha -

I can't believe you put the GB Micro in this list.

That's hilarious.

haha that is hilarious :rolleyes:

PS3 will obviously do the best, because it's the PS3. The 360 will obviously take second place, and Nintendo will take last because they are too stubborn to make a good console.

PS3, because it will have the best graphics and hopefully the nxt gen Final Fantasies!! :)

Ummmmm I'm a fan of Playstation and all and apparently the PS3 is suppose to be 3x as powerful as the XBOX360. But I think people will start bying the Xbox as it's gonna start getting all the games and stuff!!! STUFF!

Well that makes sense, considering the 360 is coming out half a year before the ps3



-_-

Haha -

I can't believe you put the GB Micro in this list.

That's hilarious.

I put it on the list because i think that since there isn't ALOT of competition in handheld gamming it could actually sell more than a major consoles.
IT COULD HAPPEN =-O

handheld gaming isnt the same thing as next gen gaming, idiot.



and handheld gaming is currently and will be for some time dominated by the psp

No it isn't. The PSP is still getting pretty massively outsold by the nintendo handhelds and doesn't exactly have an impressive list of titles right now. It seems like a lot of people with PSPs just got them for the modding.

One handheld being outsold by multiple handhelds put together? That doesn't sound very fair. Currently out for the PSP that are all impressive titles are Twisted Metal: Head On, Wipeout Pure, Lumines, Ridge Racers, and NFS: Rivals. Coming soon to the PSP that are all impressive titles are Madden 06, NBA Live 06, GTA: Liberty Stories, Burnout Legends, Spiderman 2, and Midnight Club 3, along with multiple other decent titles. I'd say each of those owns the shit out of any GBA game and quite a few DS games you can find.

Judging by their respective specs, the PS3 will do the best, but it all depends on the games each console has avaliable.The better the standard of games, the more people will buy that particular console.

Landlord, I'm not referring to all the various nintendo handhelds combined. On its own, the DS is owning the PSP. I'm not sure how the GBA SP stacks up though.

Also, your note about the PSP games owning quite a few DS games is pretty biased because there are a ton of really shitty PSP games, as well as a few very good dS games.

I'm siding with the XB360. The ps3 is sounding a bit stupid at the moment with the amount of shit that Kutaragi is talking.

True, but the specs are very impressive.


Product name: PlayStation 3

Logo: PLAYSTATION(R)3

CPU

Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
Memory
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance
2 TFLOPS
Storage
Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
I/O
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1
Communication
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Controller
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)

AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
Disc Media
CD PlayStation CD-ROM, PlayStation 2 CD-ROM, CD-DA, CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW, SACD, SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD, DualDisc, DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)
DVD: PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM, PlayStation 3 DVD-ROM, DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW
Blu-ray Disc: PlayStation 3 BD-ROM, BD-Video, BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE

Playstation 3


?
http://www.mcpeepants.com/sounds/408moonmaster/moonmaster2.mp3

The DS has plenty of ABSOLUTE SHIT games as well and half the games feel like you are spending $30 on a mini-game.


The PSP is a hell of a handheld, anyone who thinks otherwise shouldn't be allowed to form that opinion in the first place.



Anyways, as for my personal favorite out of the nextgen consoles, I'll of course be for Sony before anything else, because I always have been in the past and they've treated me well so to speak. But I would REALLY like to get my hands on a 360 when they come out, so many launch titles that I would cream my pants if I got to play.

The DS has plenty of ABSOLUTE SHIT games as well and half the games feel like you are spending $30 on a mini-game.

You realize that's basically just another angle of the very same point I was making, right? It's rather hard to judge either one of them by their games since they both have a few exceptional titles and a multitude of crap games. Still, the fact remains that the DS is outselling the PSP and has better-looking games coming out in the very near future.


The PSP is a hell of a handheld, anyone who thinks otherwise shouldn't be allowed to form that opinion in the first place.

Not in dispute.

Although I am siding with the PS3, the Revolution will, from what I've heard, kick a lot of arse aswell. It will not be the most popular but its ability to download and play all past Nintendo games is truly stunning. We're talking everything from NES to Gamecube. Completely free. That definately deserves more respect than:

Nintendo will take last because they are too stubborn to make a good console.

True, but the specs are very impressive.
A load of meaningless data
Basically, the PS3 hasn't proved it's even a games console yet. All tech demos and no actual games yet. The XB360 was at least playable.

I'm not saying "LOLOL PS3 IS GON SUCKS" because it could very well be decent, but I'm not 100% sure it will be.

EDIT:
The revolution A) Won't give those games to you free, they already said they wouldn't be, and B) Won't even support HD. It'll be behind graphically.

I'm not siding with any one console because I know i'm going to end up buying each one of the fuckers.

handheld gaming isnt the same thing as next gen gaming, idiot.



and handheld gaming is currently and will be for some time dominated by the psp

the DS is destroying the PSP outselling by more than 2 to1 which is bad news for Sony as they already make minimal profit from the PSP.

When people say that the Nintendo is dying and will finish third again they're forgetting, Sony as awhole are massively in debt so maybe there won't be a PS4 and Microsoft lost millions on the XBox although the company as a whole is massive and finally Nintendo makes a profit and really thats all that matters. Unlike Sega Nintendo finish comfortabely third and I don't see that changing anytime soon

the DS is destroying the PSP outselling by more than 2 to1 which is bad news for Sony as they already make minimal profit from the PSP.

When people say that the Nintendo is dying and will finish third again they're forgetting, Sony as awhole are massively in debt so maybe there won't be a PS4 and Microsoft lost millions on the XBox although the company as a whole is massive and finally Nintendo makes a profit and really thats all that matters. Unlike Sega Nintendo finish comfortabely third and I don't see that changing anytime soon
2 to 1?
Sony have millions of dollars of debt?
Microsoft lost millions on the xbox?
I'd like to see some stats please. Prove me wrong.

I think the PS3 will be the best, judging by some of the screens i've seen and the tech data... plus all the support it has from 3rd party developers.

Xbox 360 I am looking forward to very much as well, but I can already see the difference in the screenshots i've seen. PS3 is going to blow it away visually.

Revolution doesn't appeal to me at all really. I've spent a long time getting the games I want for NES, SNES and so on and see no reason to pay more money to play them on the Revolution. It's an interesting idea, but I think that most of the people who would consider playing old games on a new system already have the old games to begin with.

I love reading about specs but whether developers push their titles to utilise all of the Ps3's power will be a main question of mine.

another would be whether there is an OS or something other than games that may utilise the hardware as at the moment i am seeing a shiny box and half a page of specs

as for the tech demos they were interesting at first but i think the tekken 5 character models come close to the 3d models of cloud in FFVII intro so i have yet to see anything pioneering.

I can't see how anyone can say "The ps3 will be the best" yet. Nothing's been played. It's utter hearsay.

I really don't see how any of them can be "the best" anyways.

I don't know what I would say is the best of the current generation. They're all just different, but not really better than the others. X-box has better visuals, but a smaller list of exclusive games. PS2 has long load times, and the worst graphics of the 3 but a huge list of exclusive games. Gamecube has great load times and good graphics, but a small gamelist mixed with a few great exclusives.

I like all three, and plan to buy all three from the next generation as well... i wouldn't consider any of them better really I guess.

Although I am siding with the PS3, the Revolution will, from what I've heard, kick a lot of arse aswell. It will not be the most popular but its ability to download and play all past Nintendo games is truly stunning. We're talking everything from NES to Gamecube. Completely free. That definately deserves more respect than:

"Nintendo president Satoru Iwata recently shot downthe rumor that downloads of old Nintendo games would be free." that's a direct quote from
GAMEINFRORMER. What will be free is standard online play of first party Nintendo games "(current, not classic titles)".
By the the way, if you Nintendo fans and GC owners liked Super Smash Bros. just wait 'till you get the chance to beat the crap out of people all over the country!

"Nintendo president Satoru Iwata recently shot downthe rumor that downloads of old Nintendo games would be free." that's a direct quote from
GAMEINFRORMER. What will be free is standard online play of first party Nintendo games "(current, not classic titles)".
By the the way, if you Nintendo fans and GC owners liked Super Smash Bros. just wait 'till you get the chance to beat the crap out of people all over the country!
Excuse me, are you Reggie Fils-Amie?
No?
Then stop with the PR schpiel.

2 to 1?
Sony have millions of dollars of debt?
Microsoft lost millions on the xbox?
I'd like to see some stats please. Prove me wrong.

Here is the DS-PSP figures, http://www.dsgaming.co.uk/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=511 those figures are a few months old but not too much has changed.

Sony's finaces are actually billions in debt which surprised me http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2005/07/28/ap2162149.html

The reason Microsoft loses money on the xbox is due to its very expensive to produce hardrive. They have to remain competitive in the console market so have to sell the console for less than the technology costs to manufacture and that is why the ps3 and xbox 360 hardrives will be optional so that the normal console can be sold at a profit as can the hardrive versions.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24841

I think someone owes me an apology and can you eat your hat?

lol good one, mossy.



EDIT:
The revolution A) Won't give those games to you free, they already said they wouldn't be, and B) Won't even support HD. It'll be behind graphically.

yep. he's right. i mean c'mon. practically everyone and their grandmas owns a 9000 dollar hd tv. i mean c'mon, evey my little bro got one. and he's 7 years old. pfft.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6709635&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat31800050028&id=1083713711032


ps. sure there are smaller screen tv's for a lot cheaper. (still worth over 600) like this

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6376735&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat31800050028&id=1077624908130

but would you really buy a 17'' high definition television just for the "high definition"? i thought the whole point was getting BIGGER SHARPER PICTURES.


point is, PFFTTTT!!! hd = stupid waste of money. (even thought they are pretty i must admit..so clear and pristine....:p)











Revolution doesn't appeal to me at all really. I've spent a long time getting the games I want for NES, SNES and so on and see no reason to pay more money to play them on the Revolution. It's an interesting idea, but I think that most of the people who would consider playing old games on a new system already have the old games to begin with.

actually it would appeal to people who had to sell their old console and games for the newer console and games. like myself. (who sold his snes to get the n64. something i still regret to this very day. )
so basically people who either lost or no longer have old favorite games, might want it. (even though i don't see whats wrong with FREE EMULATION!! :p

I think it`s still too early to really choose what`s going to be the best but so far, the Xbox 360 is looking great. Although, to play FF i`ll have to get a PS3. So i`m torn apart by all them right now.

As far as next gen games go, all the ones i`ve seen so far don`t interest me whatsoever.

Here is the DS-PSP figures, http://www.dsgaming.co.uk/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=511 those figures are a few months old but not too much has changed.

Sony's finaces are actually billions in debt which surprised me http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2005/07/28/ap2162149.html

The reason Microsoft loses money on the xbox is due to its very expensive to produce hardrive. They have to remain competitive in the console market so have to sell the console for less than the technology costs to manufacture and that is why the ps3 and xbox 360 hardrives will be optional so that the normal console can be sold at a profit as can the hardrive versions.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24841

I think someone owes me an apology and can you eat your hat?
Alright, sorry. What can I say, I was wrong. No doubt this will be a victory to all random posters on FFS.

Consider, however, that the DS has been out longer than the PSP, and that sony's net loss isn't to do totally with the PS2/PSP. Also, they're planning to have the PS3 live for around with hardware upgrades, much like a PC, so if anything that will probably stop a PS4 appearing more than anything.

Also, according to that article, it's not Sony in debt - tell me if i'm reading wrong here - it's the people who own Sony. Because they bought MGM and thus gained their debts. Am I right?

The harddrive and console thing with the xbox is totally onboard though, and i should've realised that after reading about the xb360 selling at a loss.

Alright, sorry. What can I say, I was wrong. No doubt this will be a victory to all random posters on FFS.

Don't worry about it I'm not the kind of person who likes to rub it in, your apology is fine with me =) Now to buisness;

The DS being out much longer and a european release undoubtedly help it keep an edge over the psp, I'm in full agreement there. In about a year we should get a clearer picture of the handheld market.

Also I stand corrected on the Sony debt the article doesn't mention it, but it is still pretty damning as the company has reduced it's profit estimate by 90%! I'm gonna do some searching for a better article on that though. Sony really need an MP3 player to compete with the i-Pod though. Oh and the PS4 not appearing was really just massive exaggeration on my part.

I found this article and it is talking specifically about Sony's debt, not the one taken on board by buying MGM. Read the paragraph 'Rising Debt' about three-quarters down the page
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000006&sid=a3RGaCt9hTsM

Looks like their business is definitely getting risky.

The PS3 will have to sell or they will be in serious shit.I'm sure it will, the Playstation/PS2 are/were very popular.

Someone voted for the Gameboy Micro. That is hilarious.

The PS3 will have to sell or they will be in serious shit.I'm sure it will, the Playstation/PS2 are/were very popular.

hahahahahhahahahah

seriously

Sony has been pushing plasma tvs, home theatres, walkmans, phones, movies, - you name it, you can find it with a Sony logo on it.

Sure, if SCE tanks it will hurt the company - it's a large part of their profits - but the chances of that are slim. The PlayStation 2 didn't win this generation through bad business decisions - and initial high prices don't mean anything. I'm not sure about the US, but the PS2 was AU$700 when it first came out over here, and it didn't hurt sales.

so all the sony fanboys are forgetting that square-enix has already shown support for the 360?

just wondering

hahahahahhahahahah

seriously

Sony has been pushing plasma tvs, home theatres, walkmans, phones, movies, - you name it, you can find it with a Sony logo on it.

Sure, if SCE tanks it will hurt the company - it's a large part of their profits - but the chances of that are slim. The PlayStation 2 didn't win this generation through bad business decisions - and initial high prices don't mean anything. I'm not sure about the US, but the PS2 was AU$700 when it first came out over here, and it didn't hurt sales.

Have you read any of the articles I've posted? Sony are massively in debt, the gaming division of the company company might make a large profit but other sections are not. I'm fairly confident the PS3 will come out on top again (although Microsoft will make up ground) but the company as a whole really needs to start making a profit.

i think the ps3 will be on top. sony easily makes the most variety of games, while other systems are simply focused on all shooters or party games. nintendo might pick up a lot of ground, and xbox 360 may become the best (i hate microsoft).

as for squareenix on the 360, who cares? they released crystal chronicles on the cube, if that says much, and i think they r just trying to get more people involved with pc and ps2 gamers in vana' diel. i dont think that theyll move to microsoft, as theve made a huge profit off sony (mostly ff7). there shouldnt b anything to worry about

i think the ps3 will be on top. sony easily makes the most variety of games, while other systems are simply focused on all shooters or party games. nintendo might pick up a lot of ground, and xbox 360 may become the best (i hate microsoft).

as for squareenix on the 360, who cares? they released crystal chronicles on the cube, if that says much, and i think they r just trying to get more people involved with pc and ps2 gamers in vana' diel. i dont think that theyll move to microsoft, as theve made a huge profit off sony (mostly ff7). there shouldnt b anything to worry about
sony does not make the biggest variety of games. most of their first party titles are quite shit.

i didn't know zelda and metroid were party games thanks for filling me in.

this just in: fable was a shooter.

i think the ps3 will be on top. sony easily makes the most variety of games, while other systems are simply focused on all shooters or party games. nintendo might pick up a lot of ground, and xbox 360 may become the best (i hate microsoft).

as for squareenix on the 360, who cares? they released crystal chronicles on the cube, if that says much, and i think they r just trying to get more people involved with pc and ps2 gamers in vana' diel. i dont think that theyll move to microsoft, as theve made a huge profit off sony (mostly ff7). there shouldnt b anything to worry about

Here's a fun game to play.

It's called "how many really good games have only come out on the PS2 in the last year."

God of War, MGS3 and Katamari Damacy come to mind. Otherwise I'm not really getting this whole "SONY ARE THE GODS OF EXCLUSIVE GAMES." Also, I'm pretty sure that MGS3 is coming to the xbox at some point. I heard it someplace from a vagrant.

I'm not saying the xbox is any better for exclusives, but it's not like the PS2 is pushing out 45 more great games than xbox a year, or has been for about two.

Here's a fun game to play.

It's called "how many really good games have only come out on the PS2 in the last year."

God of War, MGS3 and Katamari Damacy come to mind. Otherwise I'm not really getting this whole "SONY ARE THE GODS OF EXCLUSIVE GAMES."

Thats an excellent point and Katamari Damacy didn't even come out in Europe. I'm not being a fanboy here but Nintendo makes the best exclusives eg Metroid Prime, Zelda, Pikmin and Resi 4, I know it isn't an exclusive for much longer but hey the GameCube had it six monhs earlier. But then Nintendo miss out on a lot of games that come to PS2 and xbox. the best way to enjoy gaming is to buy all the consoles this way you experience all the pros of all the consoles, although its very expensive

that's true. and i wish it were that easy. but of course the only reason we are having this discussion is because most people could barely afford 1 let alone 3. so were just trying to figure out every little thing we can about all 3 to find out which we'll get in the end.

and going by games, is definately a good way to judge. graphics comes 2nd imo.



as for squareenix on the 360, who cares? they released crystal chronicles on the cube, if that says much, and i think they r just trying to get more people involved with pc and ps2 gamers in vana' diel. i dont think that theyll move to microsoft, as theve made a huge profit off sony (mostly ff7). there shouldnt b anything to worry about

that's what I said about square and nintendo! and we all know how wrong i was. :(

I recently sold my XBox and its games due to lack of funds. I played it the least but now I miss out on some great games like Halo and Fable

i feel you bro! i did that with my snes to get the 64. why!! whyyy!!!!!!!!!

/me so sad. i had samurai showdown, mkII, f-zero, and mario world!!!!! classics!!

heres were the revolution gets intresting...

Sry if anyone alreadly mentioned it but from what i hear, the PS3 will cost a lot more than usual to manufacture. Doesn`t anyone think this will be a factor in sales?. From what i hear, although i could be slightly off, the PS3 will cost 280 english pounds to make. Not much room for profit, unless they boost up the price and sell bucket loads.

The same problam the xbox suffered due to its hard drive. It depends on how much the other consoles sell at, if they all are released at �300 the PS3 is fine but come christmas there'll be price cuts which puts Sony in a predicament, sell at a profit or competitively. But even if they do make a loss on the console their first party games could sell well

sony isn't known for amazing first-party titles.

Well if God of War next gen sold millions...

Some news on the 360 to further the debating...

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/636/636018p1.html

looks like they are putting themselves in a bit of a pickle, it will be interesting to see if they can deliver or if the sony fanboys will be able to laugh in their faces.

In support of microsoft, from what i've heard Sony's current betas are huge ass gray boxes :(

if they say the actual final graphics will be better, why do they give game developers alpha and beta kits? can't they just give them the final kits? to me, this sounds as if they're not even sure what the real potential is, and are just winging it based on peoples replies to the videos they've seen.



microsoft exec: ok, if they don't like what we show at e3, lets say they were just alpha tests and tell them the final system will be better

microsoft lacky: good idea sir, so then what will the final system really be like then?

microsoft exec: I DON'T KNOW! why are you asking me? were just showing them bits and pieces to find out what they really want and we go from there when we actually start constructing the final product.

microsoft lacky: oh i see. all while making it appear as if we know what they want and are just behind in production?

microsoft exec: great idea lacky, that's the kind of thinking bill likes! so sneaky.

their playing us as fools in my opinion. those damn specs mean nothing. they just sound impressive. but in the end, their still working on trying to ACHIEVE the specs they orginally put out!

that's what they get for talking all that talk. now they gotta walk the walk!

That's a fair point.The PS2 had inferior specs but it did well with what it had.The X-Box's visuals imo were dissappointing for a machine with 2x+ the power.

kind of off topic here but does anyone else find it ironic that the xbox 360s games are designed using macs and not windows?

i heard from a friend that bill actually owns a large percent of apple. anyone care to research that?

if they say the actual final graphics will be better, why do they give game developers alpha and beta kits? can't they just give them the final kits? to me, this sounds as if they're not even sure what the real potential is, and are just winging it based on peoples replies to the videos they've seen.

their playing us as fools in my opinion. those damn specs mean nothing. they just sound impressive. but in the end, their still working on trying to ACHIEVE the specs they orginally put out!

that's what they get for talking all that talk. now they gotta walk the walk!
So, hey, they can actually get used to developing for the console?

How about the Ps3, eh? Nothing actually concrete has been shown for it. NOTHING. Nothing has been playable. It's all been basically cell in a box. Why are you giving MS this shit and not sony?

Also, do you know anything about the industry?

Executives usually don't know what the fuck about consoles. They're usually handling the business of it.

Hell, at the moment I don't think Kutaragi even knows what's in the PS3. It may as well be unicorn magic.


Well if God of War next gen sold millions...
Linkin Park sells millions of CDs. Same goes for Britney, 50 Cent, The Game, and all other kinds of awful derivative shit.

Sales do not guarantee the goodness of something.

The only thing i can say would have to make ps3 stand out is the floating point operations, which is the true power rating of the cpu

the ps3 has 3 cores running at 3.2ghz each with a total power rating of 218 GigaFlops

they would have to benchmark the cpu to get this "true" rating so i believe that this console will be powerfull

the x-box also has three cores running at 3.2ghz but only to a total of 115 Gigaflops
so although powerfull the ps3 is nearly twice the brute strength..

as i said gigaflops is the true power rating so ps3 has to prove something.

Ed the PS3 has 6 extra months to work with tho :-)

So, hey, they can actually get used to developing for the console?

How about the Ps3, eh? Nothing actually concrete has been shown for it. NOTHING. Nothing has been playable. It's all been basically cell in a box. Why are you giving MS this shit and not sony?

Also, do you know anything about the industry?

Executives usually don't know what the fuck about consoles. They're usually handling the business of it.

Hell, at the moment I don't think Kutaragi even knows what's in the PS3. It may as well be unicorn magic.


Linkin Park sells millions of CDs. Same goes for Britney, 50 Cent, The Game, and all other kinds of awful derivative shit.

Sales do not guarantee the goodness of something.


what i was trying to say is why don't developers have the final product to work with? of all people it is THEY who should be given the real deal xbox so they can actually make games that use everything there is to use. so far, their limited by a box that will later on, be nothing compared to where the game is actually going to be played. why limit the devs?

so what i'm thinking, it just doesn't make sense to limit the devs. so there must be something else going on. something like, trying to actually create the console they talked so much about, and that they are probably having trouble meeting up with their own promises.

and im not picking on xbox only. i'd apply this to sony as well. they seem to both be going under the same bull shit.

They can't help but limit them because they haven't found a way to get it to peak performance yet, idiot. PS3 is the exact same way, along with dev kits for EVERY OTHER CONSOLE IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.


Just like I said the PS3 dev kit is a humongous gray box, that's the way it goes. Things get better over time, just like computers.

Sry if anyone alreadly mentioned it but from what i hear, the PS3 will cost a lot more than usual to manufacture. Doesn`t anyone think this will be a factor in sales?. From what i hear, although i could be slightly off, the PS3 will cost 280 english pounds to make. Not much room for profit, unless they boost up the price and sell bucket loads.

Nobody ever makes money off of hardware sales in this industry.

Linkin Park sells millions of CDs. Same goes for Britney, 50 Cent, The Game, and all other kinds of awful derivative shit.

Sales do not guarantee the goodness of something.

that wasn't what i meant i was just saying if a company loses money on hardware their first party games could still sell well


Nobody ever makes money off of hardware sales in this industry.

Nintendo definitely make a profit from the gamecube(hardware) and I'm pretty sure sony make money off every ps2 sold


i heard from a friend that bill actually owns a large percent of apple. anyone care to research that?

How great would it be if that was true?

Nintendo definitely make a profit from the gamecube(hardware) and I'm pretty sure sony make money off every ps2 sold


I'm pretty sure you're wrong. You're definitely wrong about the PS2. GameCube maybe, since Nintendo designed it specifically to be cheap (but it had a lower pricetag).

Sometimes it's eventually sold at a profit but even then, it's an extremely miniscule amount. The vast, vast majority of the money a company makes is off of game sales.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. You're definitely wrong about the PS2. GameCube maybe, since Nintendo designed it specifically to be cheap (but it had a lower pricetag).

Sometimes it's eventually sold at a profit but even then, it's an extremely miniscule amount. The vast, vast majority of the money a company makes is off of game sales.

we'll take one each, the PS2 is sold at a loss but Nintendo definitely are too stubborn to make a console and sell it at a loss. Look at the difference in design and hardware of the DS and PSP for evidence. the PSP has an ultra-modern design, an mp3 player umd playback, PS3 compatible etc...
The DS is cheap, poor graphics(in comparision), painful to hold and looks like someone shit it out.

we'll take one each, the PS2 is sold at a loss but Nintendo definitely are too stubborn to make a console and sell it at a loss. Look at the difference in design and hardware of the DS and PSP for evidence. the PSP has an ultra-modern design, an mp3 player umd playback, PS3 compatible etc...
The DS is cheap, poor graphics(in comparision), painful to hold and looks like someone shit it out.

Wouldn`t agree with that.

And whose to say the Revolution won`t be great, or even revolutionary (no pun intented). Even though we`ve seen 2 systems and some PC graphics representing them, it`s way too early to either praise a system or even put one down.

Wouldn`t agree with that.

And whose to say the Revolution won`t be great, or even revolutionary (no pun intented). Even though we`ve seen 2 systems and some PC graphics representing them, it`s way too early to either praise a system or even put one down.

I'm not putting any down, its much too early. The first of the next gen I'll buy is the revolution and I can't wait to see its joypad and i hope its as revolutionary as its being made out to be. I'm just saying that Nintendo are too stubborn to make a loss which imo is praising them. And on the DS, I love it its just not very pretty

The Revolution is about as revolutionary as water in a bottle.

The Revolution is about as revolutionary as water in a bottle.


so your saying they'll sell trillions? (because tons of people buy water bottles. its not even funny!) whats wrong with tap? i love it. :p



They can't help but limit them because they haven't found a way to get it to peak performance yet, idiot. PS3 is the exact same way, along with dev kits for EVERY OTHER CONSOLE IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.

BINGO! see that's the point i was trying to make. they can't still yet get it to peak performance? basically they is having trouble keeping their promises. they're all talking smack. in the end, one will reign supreme! the modest revolution that doesn't brag! (humility rulez!) rofl

i don't know about all dev kits for past 10 years being like that. how else was Rare able to push the limits on the N64 back in 95/96? instead, i think they had a more powerful dev kit. because when dk64 came out, we had to plug in that ram pak just to play it. if they too had a weaker dev kit, as you say they did, they would have ended up with a game that was playable on the original console without the need for the ram pak! since suposedly, they were limited to begin with.

The Revolution is about as revolutionary as water in a bottle.
But we barly know anything about, wait untill they realease some info on it then we will see if they actualy did make something revolutionary.

BINGO! see that's the point i was trying to make. they can't still yet get it to peak performance? basically they is having trouble keeping their promises. they're all talking smack. in the end, one will reign supreme! the modest revolution that doesn't brag! (humility rulez!) rofl



......



that's why it's called a dev kit, because it's in development. The Revolution's dev kit is surely not up to par with what the final version will be like, nor was the PS2's, Xbox's or Gamecube's. You are just so silly.



Dark~Ifrit person, we know just about everything we need to know about the Revolution to know that it really isn't revolutionary, just as the DS wasn't really revolutionary. What is with this whole "we make revolutionary shit" that isn't revolutionary at all? We need to start a revolution against the revolutionary mind-set to get them to stfu about revolutionary.

......



that's why it's called a dev kit, because it's in development. The Revolution's dev kit is surely not up to par with what the final version will be like, nor was the PS2's, Xbox's or Gamecube's. You are just so silly.



Dark~Ifrit person, we know just about everything we need to know about the Revolution to know that it really isn't revolutionary, just as the DS wasn't really revolutionary. What is with this whole "we make revolutionary shit" that isn't revolutionary at all? We need to start a revolution against the revolutionary mind-set to get them to stfu about revolutionary.


i read in an interview that they intend for the term revolution to be taken as they way we enjoy and play games not what drives 'em

which in all fairness is true, specs do not make a good game in all cases, some games benifit from better hardware some dont even really need it.

......



that's why it's called a dev kit, because it's in development. The Revolution's dev kit is surely not up to par with what the final version will be like, nor was the PS2's, Xbox's or Gamecube's. You are just so silly.



Dark~Ifrit person, we know just about everything we need to know about the Revolution to know that it really isn't revolutionary, just as the DS wasn't really revolutionary. What is with this whole "we make revolutionary shit" that isn't revolutionary at all? We need to start a revolution against the revolutionary mind-set to get them to stfu about revolutionary.

We do not know anything about the controllers. How are they going to make controllers that play NES,SNES,N64,GCN, and REV games all together, maybe it's the controllers that make it revolutionary. Again we barly know anything about the machine other then it will be able to play any nintendo console game. So, untill we actually know more about I do not think you should judge it so quickly.

What could be so difficult about playing old Nintendo games on the new controller, whatever it is?

I mean, every single controller Nintendo makes on it's consoles feature the directional buttons, Select, Start, A and B.

WTF?

I'm sure a controller is going to make a console completely revolutionary.




Vala, where do you think the better specs come from? Better hardware. And better specs DO mean better games, because they allow for better physics engines, graphics, sound, content, etc.

But its what gets the best of the technology. The cell chip is so powerful developers say its gonna be impossible to utilise it all

Vala, where do you think the better specs come from? Better hardware. And better specs DO mean better games, because they allow for better physics engines, graphics, sound, content, etc.

Absoloutly for some games those advancements are required to get a good end product, but i have never played games for those things i am happy with a 2d sprite game if it has a good story

i often assosiate the FF series with books as i play for the story and FF is like a big digibook...

......



that's why it's called a dev kit, because it's in development. The Revolution's dev kit is surely not up to par with what the final version will be like, nor was the PS2's, Xbox's or Gamecube's. You are just so silly.


oh sorry. lol. i thought dev kit meant the system that devolopers use to work with and make games. :p or...maybe both i guess. either way, i still think it sucks that game developers are limited. just imagine how much more awesome the games could be if they had all the power!

(assuming the game making process USES the kit for the making of games, rather than using the kit to TEST games) hm..now that i think about it, if its for the testing of games ON the kit, then those dev kits do in fact make sense now. :p i forget they still use computers a lot. lol




as for the revolution controllers. oh man i hope they bring back the snes control. its the greatest control ever made. no other control in history has ever been able to surpass it. it was perfect! it had no flaws!!! not even the ps control can match it. long live the snes control!!!!

as for the revolution controllers. oh man i hope they bring back the snes control. its the greatest control ever made. no other control in history has ever been able to surpass it. it was perfect! it had no flaws!!! not even the ps control can match it. long live the snes control!!!!


Yeah, i'd agree with that.The SNES controller was definetly the easiest to use and the best designed pad.The X-Box controller is too bulky, the GC too cumbersome, the PS2 controller isn't bad but the SNES is the best, good spot.

Absoloutly for some games those advancements are required to get a good end product, but i have never played games for those things i am happy with a 2d sprite game if it has a good story

i often assosiate the FF series with books as i play for the story and FF is like a big digibook...


a good storyline isn't the only aspect of a game.

a good storyline isn't the only aspect of a game.


i must agree with this, because in the end, i think great games have EVERYTHING. but one must admit that, for very simple graphics, the ff series have done great wonders. (ff1-6)

a good storyline isn't the only aspect of a game.

Sure but i think i prefer an emersive experience in a great story.
Good visuals help you see how the the developer invisions it which is all well and good but i dont think it will bring anything new to the table.

There is so much more substance to the creation and purpose of the game and without a plot those graphics dont do much.

Or in another way of explaining, link form the lengend of zelda looks and moves like he does as it is an oversite to the story he would be nothing without it.
He can look better and better all the time but that gives him no real purpose without the story.


EDIT: Landlord, these are realy only my personal opinions and i am not in any way challenging yours.
If you read all of our previous post you can see that i have actaully never realy disaggreed with you.

I guess i am saying are you taking this the wrong way? because my posts were absoloutly serious and only from my POV i wasnt trying to prove you wrong nor was i sarcastic .

I quoted what the president of nintendo himself said that the revoloution is intended to mean the way we enjoy gaming not having the most advanced cutting edge graphics.

I think that is not an entirley silly move as it will help save costs for developers as these new pionering technologies cost a lot and involve big teams.

the heart of nintendo is entertainment and quality in gaming and they have not strayed to far from the mark they prove consistant to their goals.

Personally I can't wait for the PS3 and the Revolution. As for the 360, only good thing I see on that is Halo 3 which won't come out until the PS3's release (ya know to couter the sales) So me and my friend have decided... Microsoft sucks

i don't know about all dev kits for past 10 years being like that. how else was Rare able to push the limits on the N64 back in 95/96? instead, i think they had a more powerful dev kit. because when dk64 came out, we had to plug in that ram pak just to play it. if they too had a weaker dev kit, as you say they did, they would have ended up with a game that was playable on the original console without the need for the ram pak! since suposedly, they were limited to begin with.

What in the hell are you on about? DK64 came out well, well into the N64's life. They would not have had to know about the RAM pak when they first had dev kits. I really doubt that there is even such a thing as "a more powerful dev kit". They used the RAM thingie because they could. Same with Perfect Dark. It just made it a lot easier to get smooth looks out of the games. Personally I found it rather pointless but it really has absolutely nothing to do with how "powerful" a dev kit is.

What in the hell are you on about? DK64 came out well, well into the N64's life. They would not have had to know about the RAM pak when they first had dev kits. I really doubt that there is even such a thing as "a more powerful dev kit". They used the RAM thingie because they could. Same with Perfect Dark. It just made it a lot easier to get smooth looks out of the games. Personally I found it rather pointless but it really has absolutely nothing to do with how "powerful" a dev kit is.



O_o i thought you COULDN'T PLAY dk64 without the ram pak?


and the life of the 64 and when the game came out has nothing to do with my point. my main point is just dev kit power in general and why developers don't have the best to work with.

My main point is that the whole point of the RAM pak was so they could get more power out of the system, it wasn't there to somehow compensate for a "more powerful dev kit". How exactly could a dev kit even be "more powerful" in the first place? It's not like they just push buttons and there are super duper graphics all of a sudden. I mean, you are aware that if people are better at making video games, they can make better video games, right?

My main point is that the whole point of the RAM pak was so they could get more power out of the system, it wasn't there to somehow compensate for a "more powerful dev kit". How exactly could a dev kit even be "more powerful" in the first place? It's not like they just push buttons and there are super duper graphics all of a sudden. I mean, you are aware that if people are better at making video games, they can make better video games, right?

exactly! but you can't expect them to make them better on old hardware.

and the reason i say it was probably used to compensate for a powerful dev kit, (which was a good way to put it. thanks btw.) is because i'm still under the impression that all games are still made with the help of pc's.

example would be having the dev kit with a bunch of wires sticking into the pc so they are communicating with each other. actual coding is done on pc along with artwork, graphics, 3d stuff, pretty much everything, and at the same time, contstantly testing it on the dev kit going back and forth till they get it right.

but its not important anymore. i got tired of figuring it out. don't care no more. :p

got tired with this subtopic.




my predictions!

xbox 360 will come out with games that look exactly the same as old xbox (my opinion, you can't change it! suck it! [speaking in general]:p i'll change it myself when the time comes.)

Revolution wins me over with it's "Nintendo Wi-fi" service. 1992, here I come. :cool:

Meh. All of the specs-talk is meaningless. When it comes down to it, it's the system with the superior games that will win the day. And in all honesty, launch titles aren't exactly the benchmark for a system's potential. *remembers Summoner* I think I read somewhere that somebody said that Xbox "won" the "system war" this time around. I'd haveta disagree. Xbox did really well, especially once Xbox Live really got up and running, but there was just too much ground to make up. Let's not forget that the 'box has almost zero presence in Japan. Well, last I heard, anyway.

Launch matters not to me, anyway. I'm stocked up on old-school games to play until at LEAST the first price drop, more likely the second. At that point, all the systems will have an established library of games, and then I'll tell you which system is 'best,' mainly by getting one and playing the good games.

exactly! but you can't expect them to make them better on old hardware.

and the reason i say it was probably used to compensate for a powerful dev kit, (which was a good way to put it. thanks btw.) is because i'm still under the impression that all games are still made with the help of pc's.

example would be having the dev kit with a bunch of wires sticking into the pc so they are communicating with each other. actual coding is done on pc along with artwork, graphics, 3d stuff, pretty much everything, and at the same time, contstantly testing it on the dev kit going back and forth till they get it right.

but its not important anymore. i got tired of figuring it out. don't care no more. :p

got tired with this subtopic.




my predictions!

xbox 360 will come out with games that look exactly the same as old xbox (my opinion, you can't change it! suck it! [speaking in general]:p i'll change it myself when the time comes.)


You sir, are an idiot.

Of course games are designed on computers. You can't code on a fucking Xbox. All the programming is done in languages such as C++, with the propietary libraries that each system can understand.

If you know anything about programming, you would know that the power of a system has nothing to do with guesswork. They don't make a game and then guess how much RAM it will need. Each console game is designed from the start KNOWING the limitations it has - for instance, it is not going to require more memory because the programmers won't be stupid enough to allocate objects where there is no memory space.

A dev kit is usually nothing but a PC specced with an approximate estimate of processing power, and with the proper libraries so it can run uncompiled software. For the sake of programmers everywhere, please stop discussing a topic and industry you know nothing about.

Also, if you really believe they are going to release games that look like current Xbox titles (which is a P3 733 Mhz system) on the Xbox 360 (with 3 3.2GHz power pc cores) you are delusional.

Meh. All of the specs-talk is meaningless. When it comes down to it, it's the system with the superior games that will win the day. And in all honesty, launch titles aren't exactly the benchmark for a system's potential. *remembers Summoner* I think I read somewhere that somebody said that Xbox "won" the "system war" this time around. I'd haveta disagree. Xbox did really well, especially once Xbox Live really got up and running, but there was just too much ground to make up. Let's not forget that the 'box has almost zero presence in Japan. Well, last I heard, anyway.

Launch matters not to me, anyway. I'm stocked up on old-school games to play until at LEAST the first price drop, more likely the second. At that point, all the systems will have an established library of games, and then I'll tell you which system is 'best,' mainly by getting one and playing the good games.

Quoted for truth. The PlayStation 2 definately won this console war in terms of installed systems and software sales.

i say ps3 will br #1, and Revolution and X360 will 2nd and 3rd for a while, but I think Rev. will take 2nd. The only x360 games i'm interested in are halo 3 and maybe Perfect Dark Zero. but i'm sure i'll get all 3...

You sir, are an idiot.

Of course games are designed on computers. You can't code on a fucking Xbox. All the programming is done in languages such as C++, with the propietary libraries that each system can understand.

If you know anything about programming, you would know that the power of a system has nothing to do with guesswork. They don't make a game and then guess how much RAM it will need. Each console game is designed from the start KNOWING the limitations it has - for instance, it is not going to require more memory because the programmers won't be stupid enough to allocate objects where there is no memory space.

A dev kit is usually nothing but a PC specced with an approximate estimate of processing power, and with the proper libraries so it can run uncompiled software. For the sake of programmers everywhere, please stop discussing a topic and industry you know nothing about.

Also, if you really believe they are going to release games that look like current Xbox titles (which is a P3 733 Mhz system) on the Xbox 360 (with 3 3.2GHz power pc cores) you are delusional.


i never claimed to know anything. please consider removing your head from you ass next time you feel the need to "educate" the regular folks on how people make games.

guesswork? i simply imagine the game making process works similarly to how i make webpages. i code the html out in notebad. save it. and refresh the browser. going back and forth making changes as i go and spruse up my websites. if you really think that is the wrong general idea, then please let me know. that is what i was trying to explain in my previous post.

furthermore, i'd compare the rampak for the n64 like enabling php and adding a mysql database for a website. are these incorrect anologies? if so, let me know.


thank you for your time.

i never claimed to know anything. please consider removing your head from you ass next time you feel the need to "educate" the regular folks on how people make games.

Yes you did. You're going on with this bullshit about 'more powerful dev kits', when you obviously have no understanding of the games industry.


guesswork? i simply imagine the game making process works similarly to how i make webpages. i code the html out in notebad. save it. and refresh the browser. going back and forth making changes as i go and spruse up my websites. if you really think that is the wrong general idea, then please let me know. that is what i was trying to explain in my previous post.

furthermore, i'd compare the rampak for the n64 like enabling php and adding a mysql database for a website. are these incorrect anologies? if so, let me know.


thank you for your time.


Yes, the analogy is incorrect, because you work with a higher-order scripting language - HTML, XML and PHP never directly interact with the memory allocation of a computer. You make a website, open it to see how it looks, and then go back and change it.

Programmers, real programmers, will know how their program looks before they even compile it. They know how much memory it needs. The RAM pack for the N64 wasn't a case of 'oh shit, we'z run out of memory - what are we going to do'. Nintendo created the RAM pack to enable developers to create games that looked better and were larger - enabling better programs because there was more memory space available. It wasn't adding 'extra features', it was adding more memory, plain and simple.

And besides, you obviously have no idea on what real programming entails, so yes, I felt the need to educate you - please don't bring other people into this, the post was aimed at you - on how the real world works.

You're pretty uptight for a guy with a Willy Wonka avatar.

Also; why was GB Micro included in the poll? It's not a next gen system, just a really tiny Game Boy Advance.

I just realized that the N64 will officially be an "Old School" console when these new ones come out. Holy fuck, now I feel old :(

You're pretty uptight for a guy with a Willy Wonka avatar.

I'm sorry. Please post the industry you're studying to work in, and i'll claim to know more about it and spread ignorance about the subject!

I'm sure you won't mind at all.

That's better ;<

Yes you did. You're going on with this bullshit about 'more powerful dev kits', when you obviously have no understanding of the games industry.




Yes, the analogy is incorrect, because you work with a higher-order scripting language - HTML, XML and PHP never directly interact with the memory allocation of a computer. You make a website, open it to see how it looks, and then go back and change it.

Programmers, real programmers, will know how their program looks before they even compile it. They know how much memory it needs. The RAM pack for the N64 wasn't a case of 'oh shit, we'z run out of memory - what are we going to do'. Nintendo created the RAM pack to enable developers to create games that looked better and were larger - enabling better programs because there was more memory space available. It wasn't adding 'extra features', it was adding more memory, plain and simple.

And besides, you obviously have no idea on what real programming entails, so yes, I felt the need to educate you - please don't bring other people into this, the post was aimed at you - on how the real world works.



Well.... I could mention my failed attempts at playing with visual studio 6 and a cd called "game programming starter kit" to try to elevate myself into a level where you could shut the fuck up and stop sounding so arrogant. (mostly the arrogant part. you can talk all you want) but that wouldn't work. :p


aside from that though. i must honestly say, thanks for correcting me on my analogy. i forgot programmers make sure everything is right before compiling. (heck i forgot there was even a compiling process lol) and thanks for the memory allocating whatever info. i have another question though.

so then, they are able to test things while still uncompiled to see if it works? i still think they might need to compile first, test it, and then go back if changes or fixes need to be made. and compile again, and repeat till its right. otherwise, why do "fixes" and "patches" exist for games? (honest question, i'd appreciate honest non-arrogant answer)

or you can call me an idiot and remind me that were talking about console games and that console games are perfect and error free. i don't know. up to you.


the actual programming language shouldn't even be taken into account with my anologies though. like i said, they are analogies. i could probably use pizza and baking. your not going to reply and tell me "pizza is diffrent, it never accesses the memory whatever during baking, so your anology is wrong!!" am i the only one who can see the big general picture here? in terms of testing games on dev kits? why are we even talking about programming? O_o

i don't give a shit if they use a language called viewablegeneric that doen'st need memory, i STILL think they have to go back and forth, from pc to dev kit, when making/testing their games. (at least more than once!) or in real time which would be pretty badass now that i think about it.....cool.

/me wanders off imagining himself making a game and playing it in real time....wow. my imagination rulz



finally, the need to educate me wasn't the issue. i'm cool with that and encourage it. its the tone i don't like. give it a rest. i never said "this is how things are, so thats how it is" i always use words like "i think" and "i'm under the impression that" and "i believe, I heard, I was told" and so on. does this really mean i know anything? get off your high horse.


and as for brining other people in. i seriously have no idea what your talking about. if you could do me the favor of quoting me, that'd be great. i give you permission to make me look like a fool by quoting me brining people in. if you mean it as a warning assuming i might DO it. then your talking to the wrong guy. i never bring anyone into my business.



/me quickly grabs guitar woman and puts her in my place while i run off into hiding

Well.... I could mention my failed attempts at playing with visual studio 6 and a cd called "game programming starter kit" to try to elevate myself into a level where you could shut the fuck up and stop sounding so arrogant. (mostly the arrogant part. you can talk all you want) but that wouldn't work. :p

Hmm. Because your 'game programming starter kit' is going to match the 12 months of programming i've done so far in my Software Engineering degree - majoring in Games Technology.


aside from that though. i must honestly say, thanks for correcting me on my analogy. i forgot programmers make sure everything is right before compiling. (heck i forgot there was even a compiling process lol) and thanks for the memory allocating whatever info. i have another question though.

so then, they are able to test things while still uncompiled to see if it works? i still think they might need to compile first, test it, and then go back if changes or fixes need to be made. and compile again, and repeat till its right. otherwise, why do "fixes" and "patches" exist for games? (honest question, i'd appreciate honest non-arrogant answer)

Of course they do - but memory errors are extremely rare. They're the easiest to fix, because it just means that too many variables are being assigned. Did you ever wonder why Final Fantasy VII only lets you have 255 of each item? It's because 255 is the amount of different binary numbers that can be stored in 8 bits of memory space. If they allowed you to have 256, it would give a memory error.

The fixes and patches in games are usually due to other factors. For instance, a lot of games have 'clipping' problems, which is due to the terrain visuals not lining up exactly with where the code 'says' the wall is.


or you can call me an idiot and remind me that were talking about console games and that console games are perfect and error free. i don't know. up to you.

lol. One of my favourite games is Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. And let me tell you - as good as that game is, it ain't error free :p


the actual programming language shouldn't even be taken into account with my anologies though. like i said, they are analogies. i could probably use pizza and baking. your not going to reply and tell me "pizza is diffrent, it never accesses the memory whatever during baking, so your anology is wrong!!" am i the only one who can see the big general picture here? in terms of testing games on dev kits? why are we even talking about programming? O_o

i don't give a shit if they use a language called viewablegeneric that doen'st need memory, i STILL think they have to go back and forth, from pc to dev kit, when making/testing their games. (at least more than once!) or in real time which would be pretty badass now that i think about it.....cool.

Of course they need dev kits - but that's to test things such as framerate, which is reliant on processing power, more than memory. The reason i've been arrogant throughout this entire argument is because you implied earlier that dev kits were more powerful, which is why the N64 ram pack was released - this isn't true. Dev kits have EXACTLY the same processing power as the systems, otherwise they wouldn't be functional as dev kits. For instance, the Xbox 360 beta dev kits that we received aren't as as powerful as the final X360, which meant that games development was limited until we could get the latest dev kits. The idea of a development kit is to be as close as possible to the console.

In fact, once a console because avaiable, dev kits are rarely used - they just use the final console for development, because it's easier to see exactly what the game will look like to the end user.


/me wanders off imagining himself making a game and playing it in real time....wow. my imagination rulz

Hmm. Four letters - SDLC. If you don't get what that means, you won't be making a game any time soon.


finally, the need to educate me wasn't the issue. i'm cool with that and encourage it. its the tone i don't like. give it a rest. i never said "this is how things are, so thats how it is" i always use words like "i think" and "i'm under the impression that" and "i believe, I heard, I was told" and so on. does this really mean i know anything? get off your high horse.

I get annoyed at people who refuse to listen - TK already explained that you were wrong about dev kits, and you refused to listen. If you were being difficult, I have to be stubborn about the facts. Because whether you like it or not, people are going to read your 'opinion' and take it as fact, and the last thing the internet needs is more morons who think they know what they're talking about, when they really don't.


and as for brining other people in. i seriously have no idea what your talking about. if you could do me the favor of quoting me, that'd be great. i give you permission to make me look like a fool by quoting me brining people in. if you mean it as a warning assuming i might DO it. then your talking to the wrong guy. i never bring anyone into my business.



never claimed to know anything. please consider removing your head from you ass next time you feel the need to "educate" the regular folks on how people make games.

I was referring to the fact you used 'regular folks' instead of 'me' in that sentence. I resent the fact that you believe i'm being rude to anyone except you.



/me quickly grabs guitar woman and puts her in my place while i run off into hiding[/QUOTE]

ooh. good one on the "regular folks". totally forgot i said that. lol sorry bout that.

*bows his head in shame*


everything else, i believe is nicely settled. thanks for clearing things up.


sorry for possible misinformation being taken as fact and for a small case of hard headedness.





ps. i knew about that 255 thing. (just trying to convince a pro that i at least know some general ideas which i've leanred about here and there). now i just feel like i can't talk about games anymore. :(

PS3 of course. Revolution sucks, and Xbox 360 has only a few good games.

Moronic fanboys are not welcome. Go away and show off your idiocy elsewhere.

That is, unless you can prove that the Revolution will suck and that PS3 is going to have better games than anything else. Which I doubt.

Moronic fanboys are not welcome. Go away and show off your idiocy elsewhere.

That is, unless you can prove that the Revolution will suck and that PS3 is going to have better games than anything else. Which I doubt.

With pleasure. The FF series will continue on PS3, Revolution has no games in production that anyone I know has heard of, and the Xbox 360 only seems to have PDZ and Halo 3 as incentive to buy it. Also, PS3 has always had a large range of games. Xbox would have sunk in sales if not for games like Halo, Halo 2, Ninja: Gaiden, and so forth. Gamecube kinda was dissapointing, apart from SSBM and Starfox. PSX and PS2 have had a multitude of great games: FF Series, Star Ocean Series (2 and remake of 1), Midnight Club Series, and of course Breath of Fire. Plus the PSP is bringing in extra money for developement of the PS3. You call this idiocy?

With pleasure. The FF series will continue on PS3,

Yes, but perhaps not exclusively. We already know that Final Fantasy XI will be ported to the Xbox 360, and Square-Enix has announced Final Fantasy support for Crystal Chronicles as well.

Also, some interviews have revealed that the 'proper' Final Fantasies may no longer be for one console only, but be multi-platform - which makes more business sense.


Revolution has no games in production that anyone I know has heard of,

Mario 128 has been announced as a Revolution launch title, if I recall correctly. As has Metroid Prime 3 - and considering the low price, as well as the availability of all the Nintendo classics for download, it's looking like quite an attractive console.


and the Xbox 360 only seems to have PDZ and Halo 3 as incentive to buy it.

And so far, the PlayStation 3 has a FF7 tech demo and Killzone.


Also, PS3 has always had a large range of games.

More games have been announced for the Xbox 360 at this point in time than the PlayStation 3. Most titles are also cross-platform.


Xbox would have sunk in sales if not for games like Halo, Halo 2, Ninja: Gaiden, and so forth.

Just like the PlayStation 2 would have sunk if it weren't for games like Final Fantasy X, Gran Turismo 3 and Metal Gear Solid 2. A system floats on its games, and Microsoft has put up a damn good fight.


Gamecube kinda was dissapointing, apart from SSBM and Starfox.

Not to mention Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime, Paper Mario, Tales of Symphonia... this list goes on. And the fact that it's more powerful than the PlayStation 2 for about half the price.


PSX and PS2 have had a multitude of great games: FF Series, Star Ocean Series (2 and remake of 1), Midnight Club Series, and of course Breath of Fire.

The PlayStations also have a multitude of shit games - Sony's marketing strategy has always been quantity over quality. For an RPG fan, yes, the PlayStation 2 has the most games - but the Xbox and GameCube both have a selection of awesome RPGs as well.


Plus the PSP is bringing in extra money for developement of the PS3. You call this idiocy?

That comment is especially idiocy. Do you really think that they're profitting off PSP hardware at the moment? It will be months before software and UMD sales offset the cost of research and development. Not that money is a problem - Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all have virtually unlimited funds.

Until the consoles are actually released, and you've played the games, you haven't got a leg to stand on.

This might be common knowledge but the XBox 360 in the UK will market at (these are fairly solid figures or so I'm led to believe) �210 and �280(incl. hard drive). Also some games won't work without a Hard drive

The FF series will continue on PS3,
It's already been announced that there is a Final Fantasy game being developed for the Revolution, GBA SP, or the DS. I'm pretty sure it's the Revolution, and I'm pretty sure that the title as of right now is Crystal Chronicles. Plus, since Xbox Live was far and away the best online service and is only bound to get better, don't be shocked at all to see an online Final Fantasy for the Xbox 360.


Revolution has no games in production that anyone I know has heard of,
Are you living under a rock or something?

Yes, Nintendo has announced very few titles for the next-gen console, but to actually believe that there are no games currently in production for it at this time is quite ludacris; due to the fact that it's coming out within the next 8-9 months. Even so, Mario 128 is releasing on the Revolution, and has been in production for quite a while. It's apparently such a huge secret because it will be a revolutionary game, hence the reason nothing has been said about it. Metroid Prime 3, which is going to bring the Prime series to a close, is far into production; but I'm not sure if it is a release title. And, don't tell anybody about this, but Twilight Princess is going to be pushed back to becoming a release title for the Revolution.


and the Xbox 360 only seems to have PDZ and Halo 3 as incentive to buy it.
Halo 3 isn't an incentive to buy the system at the release; heck, the game isn't even coming out for at least several months after it's release. If you want to believe the rumor that Halo 3 will release the same day as the PS3, go ahead. It's just simply not going to happen. I'm quite more excited about Gears of War than Perfect Dark Zero, because there has been much more information released about the game, along with videos and such. I mean, seriously, you won't see 'incentive' to buy any system until well after it's release, when a lot of it's great games start hitting the shelves.


Also, PS3 has always had a large range of games.
How so when few games have been announced for the system? Surely you meant to say PS2 instead?


Xbox would have sunk in sales if not for games like Halo, Halo 2, Ninja: Gaiden, and so forth.
Xbox would have sunk more in sales if it wasn't for it's excellent online service.


Gamecube kinda was dissapointing, apart from SSBM and Starfox.
Starfox? Pfft, that series has never been good since Starfox 64. It needs to be buried for good. Super Smash Bros. Melee is the best selling game to date for the system, I think. Resident Evil 4 is the best game on the system, and that one is surely a system seller. Include Super Mario Sunshine, Tales of Symphonia, and Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, and you've got superb games in your hands.


PSX and PS2 have had a multitude of great games: FF Series, Star Ocean Series (2 and remake of 1), Midnight Club Series, and of course Breath of Fire.
You seriously downplay the number of quality games on the Gamecube and Xbox, don't you?


Plus the PSP is bringing in extra money for developement of the PS3. You call this idiocy?
You do realize, that if Sony sells 14 million PS3 units in a one year period after it's release, that it will still lose an insane amount of money? You know, no profit.

Revolution has no games in production that anyone I know has heard of

Well look I don't know about you guys but personally I am pretty sure that if FF_Fanatic doesn't know anybody who has heard of any games in development for Revolution it means that there aren't any.

I`m interested in seeing what Nintendo do with Zealda on the Revolution. I know it`s quite far off but no harm in wondering eh?.

So far, i`m not even thinking about buying a next gen system it`s still too far off even to imagine their potential. But as of no, i`m just looking forward in seeing actual real time footage on any system.

I'm looking forward to them unveiling the "revolutionary" new controller and being like "SEE WE PUT A BUTTON IN A TOTALLY NEW SPOT NOBODY HAS EVER PUT A BUTTON BEFORE"

Isn't that what Microsoft did?

I don't remember them saying that had anything "revolutionary" about the Xbox aside from the graphics, which everybody always says about their console.

I've yet to see these revolutionary graphics. The only thing I've seen at all is the cover of PD Zero, and I know from experience that the cover's graphics will be nothing at all like the actual graphics in the game. I remember Squaresoft putting out ads that looked like this:
http://www.geocities.com/ffviiius/im/squall4.art
For a game that looked like this:

I know, that's kinda my point. Nothing's ever really revolutionary about any console, graphics or otherwise, or at least it hasn't been. Advancement in this industry is made entirely in small steps, and whatever secret Nintendo has may end up being kinda neat... but it's not going to change the way people play video games forever or any nonsense like that. Unless they are going to unveil that THE REVOLUTION IS ALSO A COMBINATION PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE TO POWER YOUR HOME or something.

Oh and interesting bit of trivia: Nintendo had online play on a console before Microsoft or Sony ever did, most people just don't know about it!

So far, i`m not even thinking about buying a next gen system it`s still too far off even to imagine their potential. But as of no, i`m just looking forward in seeing actual real time footage on any system.

Check out in-game trailers running on the dev kits - for the Xbox 360 that is. Most of those games are pretty much near final.

Apparently the trailers shown for the PS3 at E3 were in game as well, but Sony has known to well... lie in the past. Especially about the graphical prowess of their systems.

It's already been announced that there is a Final Fantasy game being developed for the Revolution, GBA SP, or the DS. I'm pretty sure it's the Revolution, and I'm pretty sure that the title as of right now is Crystal Chronicles. Plus, since Xbox Live was far and away the best online service and is only bound to get better, don't be shocked at all to see an online Final Fantasy for the Xbox 360.


Are you living under a rock or something?with that last paragraph, i have to wonder the same about you.


Yes, Nintendo has announced very few titles for the next-gen console, but to actually believe that there are no games currently in production for it at this time is quite ludacris; due to the fact that it's coming out within the next 8-9 months. Even so, Mario 128 is releasing on the Revolution, and has been in production for quite a while. It's apparently such a huge secret because it will be a revolutionary game, hence the reason nothing has been said about it. Metroid Prime 3, which is going to bring the Prime series to a close, is far into production; but I'm not sure if it is a release title. And, don't tell anybody about this, but Twilight Princess is going to be pushed back to becoming a release title for the Revolution. Roll out! Roll out! Roll out! Roll out! Roll out! Roll out!

[Chorus - "roll out!" in background]
I got my twin glock .40s, cocked back
Me and my homies, so drop that
We rollin on twenties, with the top back
So much money, you can't stop that
Twin glock .40s, cocked back
Me and my homies, so drop that
We rollin on twenties, with the top back
So much money, you can't stop that

Now where'd you get that platinum chain with them diamonds in it?
Where'd you get that matchin Benz with them windows tinted?
Who them gurls you be with when you be ridin through?
Man I ain't got nothin to prove, I paid my dues
Breakin the rules, I shake fools while I'm takin a cruise
Tell me who's your weed man, how do you smoke so good?
You's a superstar boy, why you still up in the hood?
What in the world is in that BAG, what you got in that BAG?
A couple a cans a whoop ass, you did a good ass job of just
Eyein me, spyin me

[Chorus]

Man, that car don't come out until next year,
where in the FUCK did you get it?
That's eighty-thousand bucks GONE,
where in the FUCK did you spend it?
You must have eyes on your back, 'cause you got money to the ceiling
And the bigger the cap, the bigger the peelin
The better I'm feelin, the more that I'm chillin
Willin, drillin and killin the feelin
Now who's that bucked' naked cook fixin three-course meals?
Gettin goosebumps when her body tap the six inch heels
What in the world is in that ROOM, what you got in that ROOM?
A couple a gats, a couple a knives,
a couple of rats, a couple of wives
Now it's time to choose

[Chorus]

Are you custom-made, custom-paid, or you just custom-fitted?
Playstation 2 up in the ride and is that Lorenzo-kitted?
Is that your wife, your girlfriend, or just your MAIN bitch?
You take a pick, while I'm rubbin the hips,
touchin lips to the top of the dick, and then WHOO!
Now tell me who's your housekeeper and what you keep in your HOUSE?
What about diamonds and gold, is that what you keep in your MOUF?
What in the world is in that CASE, what you got in that CASE?
Get up out my face, you couldn't relate,
wait to take place at a similar pace
So shake, shake it

[Chorus]

[X2]
Get out my business, my biznass
Stay the FUCK up out my biznass, ah
'Cause these niggaz all up in my shit and it's my business,
my biznass
Stay the FUCK up out my biznass, 'cause it's mine, oh mine

Oh and interesting bit of trivia: Nintendo had online play on a console before Microsoft or Sony ever did, most people just don't know about it!
Holy hell :(

Holy hell :(

bah old news besides it never got off the ground.

Yeah, but old news is so exciting!

Check out in-game trailers running on the dev kits - for the Xbox 360 that is. Most of those games are pretty much near final.

Apparently the trailers shown for the PS3 at E3 were in game as well, but Sony has known to well... lie in the past. Especially about the graphical prowess of their systems.

I know what you mean but it`s almost like, until i see it before my eyes running off a system directly to a t.v it`s hard to tell what real time and what`s a mock-up no matter what the companies say.

At this particular point I am most interested in the XboX360, just because I know what I am getting once it gets here. So far the PS3 only has techdemos, but not even of games, it doesn't give you any idea what the games will be like and they will play like. Also, Microsoft has a firm online plan that's just going to be continued with the 360. XboX Live is the only console online service that got off the ground decently.

I'm a huge lover of my PS2 at the moment, but at this point it's too hard to tell what the PS3 is going to be like. Should hover the PS3 come with demos and whatnot, I would atleast review my oppinions.

Anyone know if the 360 is going to be backwards compatible with XboX games? if so, I'm more then likely to get one, because I don't think it's worth buying an XboX, with a new one comming out rather soon.

Anyone know if the 360 is going to be backwards compatible with XboX games? if so, I'm more then likely to get one, because I don't think it's worth buying an XboX, with a new one comming out rather soon.

From what i hear, it will and it won`t. What i mean is, only some games from the Xbox will work on the Xbox360. Apparantly, only first party games will work though.

Anyone know if the 360 is going to be backwards compatible with XboX games? if so, I'm more then likely to get one, because I don't think it's worth buying an XboX, with a new one comming out rather soon.
Microsoft is releasing two versions of the Xbox 360. One is priced at $400. It comes with hard drive, which allows for backwards compatibility; and other stuff is in this package too. The other package is $300, and is basically the system w/controller. But, to play Xbox games on the Xbox 360, you must buy the $400 one. :(

Its all about the games. Ninja Turtles for nintendo is a classic (IMO) and to be honest it looks like shit. Contra/Gallaga/Pac-man/Sonic/Megaman/FF1-8/Street Fighter 2/ Mario Bros......Every body has a Fav. game. Its up to a Capcom or a Rare or Square to make a dope game. Not the system. As far as the games looks, its about as good as its going to get now. If you have a ULTRA powerful PS3 but all the games suck, its not "PS3's" fault, its the game makers.

By the way im PS3 all the way!

Its all about the games. Ninja Turtles for nintendo is a classic (IMO) and to be honest it looks like shit. Contra/Gallaga/Pac-man/Sonic/Megaman/FF1-8/Street Fighter 2/ Mario Bros......Every body has a Fav. game. Its up to a Capcom or a Rare or Square to make a dope game. Not the system. As far as the games looks, its about as good as its going to get now. If you have a ULTRA powerful PS3 but all the games suck, its not "PS3's" fault, its the game makers.

By the way im PS3 all the way!

Holy contradiction, Batman!

If you actually believe what you just said, than you wouldn't be pushing the PS3 - you'd just buy whatever system had good games on it. Which is pointless in this discussion, because no-one knows what the games of the FUTURE (TM) will be like anyway.

I came to the decision this week that i'm not getting the Xbox 360. As an Australian, i'm going to be paying a shitload more for the console - the BASIC SYSTEM is retailing for $500 over here. That means that the 'advanced' system will be around $750 - add $120 for a game, and that's nearly a grand. The PlayStation 3 will probably have similar pricing.

Up until this point, I was going to continue my pattern of buying any games system on the market, but my funds are pretty limited - at $500 a pop, I could have bought both, but at $1000, I have to choose one - and so far, the PlayStation 3 has the advantage.

Reasoning?

1) DVD Movie Compatibility

The Xbox 360 being launched at Christmas has a standard DVD drive. The PlayStation 3 is being launched with a Blu-ray DVD drive - as I probably won't be buying a Blu-ray DVD player (I've never owned even a normal DVD player), it's a better solution.

2) Media Centre Functionality

Xbox 360 acts a Media Centre extender. Sorta. The caveat is, you have to have a computer with Media Centre 2003 installed on it already - which I don't have - AND, and this is a bloody big and, it only supports WMV, WMA and ASF.

Sony haven't announced their compatibility plans yet - but you can bet it won't be dependant on an OS. Hell, even if they only support MP4, most of my movies are in that format now 'cause PSP anyway.

3) Bang for Buck

The PlayStation 3 has twice the FLOPS capability of the Xbox 360. That's all that matters when it comes to making sexy, fast games. Sure, most of the PS3 games will probably be cross platform, so they'll look the same on both consoles (EA is lazy, for instance), but you can bet games like Metal Gear Solid 4 - designed specifically for the PS3 - will never be able to look that good on the Xbox 360.


That's pretty much the deciding points - sure, i'll be pissed that I can't play Halo 3 on release, but I'll probably wait until the system comes down in price by at least $250 - and incorporates a HD-DVD drive, like they say the later systems will.

or you could just rent it! i've seen lots of my friends just rent xboxes and halo and having halo parties and shit. why waste hundres, when you can spend a few 20's or so to rent it, pass teh game, and take it back. i'd prolly do that myself now that i think about it... hmmm

Holy contradiction, Batman!

If you actually believe what you just said, than you wouldn't be pushing the PS3 - you'd just buy whatever system had good games on it. Which is pointless in this discussion, because no-one knows what the games of the FUTURE (TM) will be like anyway.

I came to the decision this week that i'm not getting the Xbox 360. As an Australian, i'm going to be paying a shitload more for the console - the BASIC SYSTEM is retailing for $500 over here. That means that the 'advanced' system will be around $750 - add $120 for a game, and that's nearly a grand. The PlayStation 3 will probably have similar pricing.

Up until this point, I was going to continue my pattern of buying any games system on the market, but my funds are pretty limited - at $500 a pop, I could have bought both, but at $1000, I have to choose one - and so far, the PlayStation 3 has the advantage.

Reasoning?

1) DVD Movie Compatibility

The Xbox 360 being launched at Christmas has a standard DVD drive. The PlayStation 3 is being launched with a Blu-ray DVD drive - as I probably won't be buying a Blu-ray DVD player (I've never owned even a normal DVD player), it's a better solution.

2) Media Centre Functionality

Xbox 360 acts a Media Centre extender. Sorta. The caveat is, you have to have a computer with Media Centre 2003 installed on it already - which I don't have - AND, and this is a bloody big and, it only supports WMV, WMA and ASF.

Sony haven't announced their compatibility plans yet - but you can bet it won't be dependant on an OS. Hell, even if they only support MP4, most of my movies are in that format now 'cause PSP anyway.

3) Bang for Buck

The PlayStation 3 has twice the FLOPS capability of the Xbox 360. That's all that matters when it comes to making sexy, fast games. Sure, most of the PS3 games will probably be cross platform, so they'll look the same on both consoles (EA is lazy, for instance), but you can bet games like Metal Gear Solid 4 - designed specifically for the PS3 - will never be able to look that good on the Xbox 360.


That's pretty much the deciding points - sure, i'll be pissed that I can't play Halo 3 on release, but I'll probably wait until the system comes down in price by at least $250 - and incorporates a HD-DVD drive, like they say the later systems will.

The PS3 part was a joke, THUS far playstation has yet to let me down as a gamer. IMO i probably will get the PS3, im not into Xbox because IMO they have no great games. I feel that system's backbone is Halo, which i really dont see what the big deal is. I feel the xbox does sports games better than PS2, but i have yet to buy any sport games. "They" say now it will be eaiser to make games for the PS3 than PS2, and if so why would any maker (that ive come to love) leave that. Its more powerful than xbox. And the Bullshit Xbox is doing with the differnt prices, I feel MS is taking there fans for all there worth (Wired controllers/hard drive/dvd remote/etc. So why would i leave PS3 just because Xbox360 will be out sooner? Its a weaker system, not fully backwards??? And mark my words Xbox 720 will be out by X-mas 2009

bzz. wrong. it will be called xbox 1080 and it will be out one year after 360's release. it will sport perfect halo 3! where you find out that master chief is a GIRL!

"They" say now it will be eaiser to make games for the PS3 than PS2, and if so why would any maker (that ive come to love) leave that.

Yeah, but the Xbox, and now the Xbox 360 are easiest to program shit for. They use an assembly language that is very similar to a computers, and they contain all the DirectX (and the new XNA) libraries.

The PlayStation3 libraries are different, and written by Japanese programmers at Sony. Programming is a universal language, but the thought patterns of a coder are very important when it comes to interpreting their work.

Also, the Xbox has had many top quality games this generation - BioWare have brought out two RPGs that are better than any of the Final Fantasies. Not to mention that all games that are spread over the three systems (like Prince of Persia, Spider-man 2) look better on the Xbox.

Yeah, but the Xbox, and now the Xbox 360 are easiest to program shit for. They use an assembly language that is very similar to a computers, and they contain all the DirectX (and the new XNA) libraries.

The PlayStation3 libraries are different, and written by Japanese programmers at Sony. Programming is a universal language, but the thought patterns of a coder are very important when it comes to interpreting their work.

Also, the Xbox has had many top quality games this generation - BioWare have brought out two RPGs that are better than any of the Final Fantasies. Not to mention that all games that are spread over the three systems (like Prince of Persia, Spider-man 2) look better on the Xbox.

No doubt the games NOW look better on the Xbox than the PS2, but thats because it is more powerful. Thats not the case for the PS3 as MS knows this. They have not said once there system is more powerful than PS3, they just say PS3 will be more $$$ and its not for the average home. Thats fine by me. If the Makers keep bringing out the games i like (Just as you said IyourO you think alot of games are great for Xbox) Ill keep with. Its a matter of likes in the games i dont believe xbox have had many if any great games. Ill give Xbox madden 05, IMO the best sports game ever, But does that mean i should run out and buy a xbox/360 hell no.

I actually preordered my xbox360. I probably said that already.



Sony haven't announced their compatibility plans yet - but you can bet it won't be dependant on an OS. Hell, even if they only support MP4, most of my movies are in that format now 'cause PSP anyway.

Erm.
Might wanna re-write that. Because it's a computer, and it runs on an OS. Hell, you're going to be able to run Mac OSX and Linux on it.

No doubt the games NOW look better on the Xbox than the PS2, but thats because it is more powerful. Thats not the case for the PS3 as MS knows this.

When the hell did I ever claim the Xbox 360 would look better than the PlayStation 3? If you actually read my post, I was saying that's why I bought an Xbox, and that was no longer the case for the X360.

So, for the X360 to attract my attention, it better have some damn worthwhile exclusives - and so far, it doesn't. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion looks good, but it will also be on the PC. The only thing that will probably convince me to get one is if BioWare starts making Xbox exclusive RPGs again.



Erm.
Might wanna re-write that. Because it's a computer, and it runs on an OS. Hell, you're going to be able to run Mac OSX and Linux on it.

Sorry, I worded it badly. I was referring to the fact that if you want to stream media from your computer to the Media Extender in the X360, you need the Media Centre OS running on your computer. Even if the PlayStation 3 doesn't support a Windows OS streaming, it will support Linux - and thankfully, Linux is free. It will be much easier for me to set up a Fedora partition and use that to stream media to my PS3 than it will be to purchase and install a copy of Windows Vista Media Center.

What's your source that you can only stream from a Windows media center-enabled pc?
I wouldn't mind reading about it.

What's your source that you can only stream from a Windows media center-enabled pc?
I wouldn't mind reading about it.

I got the information from the following article:

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/08/24/xbox_360_media_center/

Which has been updated since to note that the extender will also be compatible with Windows Vista, which has the Media Center abilities built in. So basically, you have to have either Media Center 2003 or Vista installed to stream data.

give it at most three months.
Someone'll have it hacked.

Not to say that it shouldn't be like that out of the box, but there're people out there who get joy - pure joy - from messing with microsoft.