So a lot of people get confused about the whole "how in the world did Tidus get from a dream Zanarkand to the real world, if he was in the past and goes to the real world in the future?" thing. Ive seen TONS of questions on it. So, lets discuss our thoughts on it.

This is what i am thinking.. However its late, im tired, and my theory might not end up sounding the way I want it. It makes sense in my head, i just need to figure out how to word it. So bear with me.

Tidus's Zanarkand never existed. It existed only in dreams, therefore it was never an actual existance, just a figment of somebody(or in this case.. many many fayths) imagination. Tidus's Zanarkand was a copy of Shuyins Zanarkand, aka the real one. Shuyins Zanarkand was destroyed, but during that time came the creation of Sin.. The surviving summoners and people of the real Zanarkand became fayths and re-created Zanarkand back up as a dream. Spira wasnt re-created as a dream, only Zanarkand. Because of this, it would seem as if Bevelle never defeated Zanarkand at all.. Only created a monster. Obviously that would mean there was some sort of plan involved with religion, and Yevon broke out among the people. Nobody had anything to turn to, except the new found religion.. so people found comfort in it and it spread over the years. When Sin attacked the dream Zanarkand, Tidus was taken to the future to save the world and rid it of Sin completely. Sin destroyed dream-Zanarkand, which would be why it was nothing but ruins in the future. I think that Yu Yevon must have had rule over all of Spira originally, and that would be why he created Sin.. So that his two main places, Bevelle and Zanarkand, wouldnt ruin eachother. Something else would, so his world would stay together and not be broken apart.. Tidus must have been taken to the future so that he could stop Sin, because if he would have stayed in the dream-Zanarkand, he would have been destroyed and Sin would come a-new every ten years being that nobody could truely destroy him, because nobody would still be a dream. Only something that never actually existed could get rid of something that never should have existed. When Tidus suceeded in defeating Sin completely, he ceased to exist in any form but a memory. He never had a soul, so there would be no pyreflies, and thus no image in the Farplane. Dream-Zanarkand would be completely gone after that and the fayth could wake up.

I have a lot more theories that branch of the main idea... so if you want to know, ask. But im just way too tired to keep going on about this right now. haha

does it make sense to any of you?

Ummm...good effort. I just think that it doesn't need so much explaining.

There is no time travel in this game. Dream Zanarkand is basically one huge Aeon. Tidus and Jecht are part of it. They were simply brought from within Dream Zanarkand to Spira. Dream Zanarkand and present day Spira exist together in the same time frame and the same plane of existence.

Yunalesca made a deal with Bevelle: She would defeat Sin, as long as the people would honour her father. This leads to the Yevon religion.

Sin may destroy Dream Zanarkand, but Yu Yevon just summons everything back to normal again. Auron, Jecht and Tidus are able to ride Sin since they are not living people.

Yu Yevon created Sin to protect himself while summoning Dream Zanarkand. That is Sin's purpose. Sin also attacks any populated place and eliminates any threat that might come so Yu Yevon can continue summoning. Sin is not summoned; merely created.

One final note. Tidus is not based off of Shuyin, despite their similarities. If the people of Dream Zanarkand were in fact based off of the people from the real Zanarkand, then Dream Zanarkand would be stuck in an endless loop constantly being re-populated with the same people. Initially, the people may be the same, but life goes on. People die and new people are born.

Oh, shoot i was going to post something like this, but i guess you beat me too it, oh well maybe next time then. anyway onward with the reply!


When Sin attacked the dream Zanarkand, Tidus was taken to the future to save the world and rid it of Sin completely. Sin destroyed dream-Zanarkand, which would be why it was nothing but ruins in the future.

True it is destroyed, but dream zanarkand seems to be still there inside sin
when you fight jecht, only it looks like it was empty not the populated zanarkand we saw tidus in.


Only something that never actually existed could get rid of something that never should have existed. When Tidus suceeded in defeating Sin completely, he ceased to exist in any form but a memory. He never had a soul, so there would be no pyreflies, and thus no image in the Farplane.

hmm i see your point, although didn't the bahamut fayth that he was more then a dream? My guess is that since Tidus and Jecht came to spira they became partially real, sow when jecht became sin he still was alive until he his deafeat him in the game. When tidus fades away in the end of the game i think he just became a living soul not going to the farplane since he did not
die. sow when he came to spira he became real person with a soul yet he was still somewhat a dream. more then a dream as the fayth says, a real person with a soul, but still a dream. maybe thats why he does not completly fade away in the end.

confusing stuff, i know this whole tidus being a dream thing has baked my noodle alot :-P

Also there is one more thing, tidus's mother is dreams right? then why is she in the farplane? that dosen't make any sense, since she is not real.

Oooh yeah good point. I never gave any thought into the fact that Tidus's mom was in the Farplane.. I remember them saying something about how she accepted death, so she went to the Farplane, but if she is a dream then she shouldnt be there at all. Yeah, that confuses me.

And to Jewels:
How could you say that dream Zanarkand cant be stuck in an endless loop yet say that Yu Yevon summons everything back to normal again in dream Zanarkand? That counts as an endless loop.

I think that people in Zanarkand are copies because dream Zanarkand was only JUST created. The Real Zanarkand was JUST destroyed. So if there have only been a real Zanarkand and a copy Zanarkand, life could still go on and it wouldnt repeat itself. New people would be born into the dream from the copies of the people of the real Zanarkand, and would continue as any real world would. So the people wouldnt repeatedly get copied, only that first time. They would be copied the first time to put the illusion that Bevelle never defeated Zanarkand.. If all the people that had been in Zanarkand suddenly disappeared and new people were in their place, wouldnt that be obvious?

Here's the deal about why Tidus' mums in the Farplane. The Dream Zanarkand, originally existed before the Machina War, Tidus, Jecht and everyone were real people at on point. Then when Sin destroyed it, the people who died during the attack went to the Farplane. I think the Dream Zanarkand does occur like a loop, but it's inhabitants don't realise it...... So after Sin attacks, time resets, but the reason Tidus' mother is on the Farplane is because she died during the original attack, where Tidus and Jecht don't.

That cant be true, because the fayth from Bevelle says that they only created Zanarkand as a dream after the machina war. All of the people who lived the attack and the surviving summoners turned themselves into fayth so that Zanarkand wouldnt completely die off.

Tidus and His parrents was real, and the machina war came, and Tidus was one of them who died in that war. Tidus mom accepted death probably and went to the farlpane.

LATER in the future 1000 years, Fayth dreams the City Zanarkand, Tidus and his parrents were still alive. So Jecht went to Spira in............

i dont know what im talking abou LOL.

Edit: My english is bad, and i have my theory....


What about Sir Aurom? How does he travel to ''DREAM Zanarkand'' and spira?

it's confusing i know.

Auron travels to dream Zanarkand because he is an unsent meaning he his dead.
And apperently the fayth, sin, dream zanarkand and the dead are all conected.

Anyway

I have this theory

The remaining people became fayth right? Then they dreamt up dream Zanarkand and the people that lived there from their memories they had of the City and the people. Sow they made a copy of the city and themselves yes? obviously not all the people of dream Zanarkand were those remaining few, from Original Zanarkand that became fayth.

Now lets say jecht was not one of those remaining people of zanarkand and that he died before that in the attack going to the farplane, then those fayth dreamt up jecht in dream zanarkand. Dream Jecht went to spira and became
real. Wouldn't there not be two Jechts then?

this is just one of those i had to get of my chest, but i don't know if it makes much sense.

Remember that there were only a few that survived the attack sow it might have been this way.

Dream Zanarkand is not based on the Zanarkand of 1000 ago. The people in the current Dream Zanarkand are unique. Tidus is not based on someone from the real Zanarkand, and neither is Jecht or anyone else.

People appear in the Farplane in the form of pyreflies and are not real. A summoned entity is also made up of pyreflies and are also not real. Therefore, there is no reason why Tidus' mum can't appear on the Farplane if she accepted her death.


How could you say that dream Zanarkand cant be stuck in an endless loop yet say that Yu Yevon summons everything back to normal again in dream Zanarkand? That counts as an endless loop.
If Sin destroys Dream Zanarkand, Yu Yevon re-summons it back to the state it was in just before it was destroyed. After that, life continues. The only way this could be an endless loop would be if Sin managed to continuously destory Dream Zanarkand without letting time pass between its attacks.

A time loop is defined as a recurrence of events. Therefore, the period leading up to Sin's attack is also part of the loop

Maybe it's all in the mind of some person who may be dieing. Weird dream
I know it's a crap suggestion, you lot have all ready used most of the rest

A time loop is defined as a recurrence of events. Therefore, the period leading up to Sin's attack is also part of the loop
That would only be the case if the period in question had already occured before. It hadn't. If Sin were to attack again, the period leading up to that attack would be different to the period before the previous attack.

Not necessarily. Time could reset, rather than just that specific moment replayed, which could be another reason to explain why Tidus disappears

I see no reason why time would reset. It wouldn't make any logical sense for the fayth to dream up an earlier dream.

At the end of the game Tidus appears in the ocean and swimming up, what should that suppose to mean?

SPOILER ALERT!!!! DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT ANY GAME SPOILED!




















It's one of the hints that SE were making FFX-2. At the end of FFX-2, If you get the Reunion Ending, you see Tidus swimming up, like at the end of FFX and when he hits the surface, he's on Besaid Beach. Then Yuna and the rest of the Gullwings appear behind him, and him and Yuna embrace

:sad: :shock:

Is this true?

Er... Yes? (that means yes)

:rolleyes: I haven't completed the game yEt.

Then you shouldn't have read it. That's what "SPOILER ALERT" means.

I couldn't resist.

Sorry FurY but I did give people sufficent space to skip past it!

Nah forget it, i don't really care.

This thread is getting off topic now...

lets get back to topic.

There wouldnt be two Jechts, because Jecht didnt accept death. tidus's mother did, which would explain why she went to the Farplane..
But then that leads right back to my theory in my mind. She was based off of a real person, so the reason she would be in the Farplane was because the original was.

And I see how your theory could work jewels.. But it just doesnt sit right in my head. It seems to me the more obvious is my idea of what happened.. But that would be because I played FFX-2 and put thought into the whole thing. It just seems that is what happened, and everything is explainable.. so it works perfectly for me. but like i said, your theory is understandable as well.

To me (and a whole lot of other people), it wouldn't make any sense for the Tidus, Jecht or anyone else from Dream Zanarkand to be based on the people of the real Zanarkand. I don't see how anything from FFX-2 relates to this though, since that story is completely different.

The whole thing about Tidus' mum being a real person that accepted death 1000 years ago seems a bit far-fetched, since she never was a real person. She only existed in Dream Zanarkand, and she accepted her death there. As you know people in the Farplane are not people at all; they're just pyreflies shaped into the form of a visitor's memory. Summoned dreams (aeons) are also simply pyreflies shaped into a specific form. It's only logical that Tidus' mum would be there if Tidus was thinking about her. Dream Zanarkand also exists on the same plane of existence as Spira, so there is also only one Farplane.

This theory isn't my own personal theory, it's just the generally accepted theory.

Okay, first off.. im not arguing your theory. You arent convincing me of anything.. We just have two seperate theories. Now, i cant tell from "tone of voice" or anything being this is the net, but it seems you are being rather defensive about me not agreeing with yours. If not, whatever, i apologize. haha
Second off..
To the people you have talked to about it, it is "generally" accepted.
To the people I have talked about it, my thoery is "generally" accepted.

I dont care if it doesnt make sense to you. it makes perfect sense to me and to others. The FFX-2 story is different, but not completely.. I simply dont believe Yu Yevon has the power to summon a dream back when anything happens to it. Its the fayths dreams, not Yu Yevon, therefor the only way he can affect it is as Sin.

Sorry if I sounded defensive. I tend to sound like that unintentionally.

Yu Yevon is a summoner. He can summon something back if something should happen to it, just like Yuna can summon one of her aeons again if they are defeated in battle. He was also an extremely powerful and talented summoner. You're right about him not being able to affect the dream. Only the fayth have that ability. Yu Yevon can only summon, control and dismiss it; he can't change it.

Since we are discussing theories, I'll point out a few things about yours, so hopefully you can develop new ideas:

1. There is no time travel.
2. Dream Zanarkand exists within Spira.
3. Dream Zanarkand has existed for about 1000 years; it wasn't only just created.
4. Yu Yevon was the ruler of Zanarkand.

Dream Zanarkand is not based on the Zanarkand of 1000 ago. The people in the current Dream Zanarkand are unique. Tidus is not based on someone from the real Zanarkand, and neither is Jecht or anyone else.

People appear in the Farplane in the form of pyreflies and are not real. A summoned entity is also made up of pyreflies and are also not real. Therefore, there is no reason why Tidus' mum can't appear on the Farplane if she accepted her death.

To me (and a whole lot of other people), it wouldn't make any sense for the Tidus, Jecht or anyone else from Dream Zanarkand to be based on the people of the real Zanarkand. I don't see how anything from FFX-2 relates to this though, since that story is completely different.

The whole thing about Tidus' mum being a real person that accepted death 1000 years ago seems a bit far-fetched, since she never was a real person. She only existed in Dream Zanarkand, and she accepted her death there. As you know people in the Farplane are not people at all; they're just pyreflies shaped into the form of a visitor's memory. Summoned dreams (aeons) are also simply pyreflies shaped into a specific form.


ok, but the summoned people in the dream-zanarkand aren't real, and the dream is directly based on the appearence of the REAL zanarkand. they are dead and do appear on the farplane, but their duplicates do exist in the dream of the fayth, as well! this quote from the game makes it clear (the scene, where tidus touches the fayth at gagazet and begins to dream):


Fayth: The remaining summoners and the townspeople that survived the war... They all became fayth-fayth for the summoning.

Tidus: The summoning... You mean Sin?

Fayth: No. I mean this place. A Zanarkand that never sleeps.

Tidus: What?

Fayth: The dreams of the fayth summoned the memories of the city. They summoned all the buildings, all the people who lived there.


so i think it is possible that someone who died in zanarkand 1000 years ago, can sstill live in the dream-zanarkand... what do you think?

I have to agree with Gast. Also, Jewels, what you're saying sounds like, you think up a memory of someone, and the pyreflies read your memory and produce that image. But surely, when Tidus thought of Jecht in the Farplane, Jecht would have appeared, and not his mother?

thats the thing you see, if the pyreflies were only some magic
orbs that produce a live image of someone then tidus would have seen jecht too, but i he didn't because he was sin or alive for that matter. Sow the pyreflies have to be the
souls of the dead. It's funny because in the game they say that they are only memories that the pyreflies are reacting to.

kind of contradictiv. :notgood:

so i think it is possible that someone who died in zanarkand 1000 years ago, can sstill live in the dream-zanarkand... what do you think?
Well like I said in my first post, it's likely that the initial population of Dream Zanarkand was the same as the real Zanarkand. But that was 1000 years ago, and Tidus is currently 17 years old. 983 years have passed since the initial summoning of Dream Zanarkand.


I have to agree with Gast. Also, Jewels, what you're saying sounds like, you think up a memory of someone, and the pyreflies read your memory and produce that image. But surely, when Tidus thought of Jecht in the Farplane, Jecht would have appeared, and not his mother?
Jecht wasn't dead. He never died. He can't appear on the Farplane. His mother however, did die and she accepted her death. She can appear there, but not Jecht.

But that was 1000 years ago, and Tidus is currently 17 years old. 983 years have passed since the initial summoning of Dream Zanarkand.

ok, that's right, i understand. but could life in the dream of zanarkand really be ever evolving? i mean, do the fayth dream, that zanarkand develops any further as ist once was? for they don't know about a future that never existed, do they...? (confusing, but do you get what i mean?)

Well like I said in my first post, it's likely that the initial population of Dream Zanarkand was the same as the real Zanarkand. But that was 1000 years ago, and Tidus is currently 17 years old. 983 years have passed since the initial summoning of Dream Zanarkand.


Jecht wasn't dead. He never died. He can't appear on the Farplane. His mother however, did die and she accepted her death. She can appear there, but not Jecht.

jecht did die. He died to become the aeon for the Final Summoning. So, if that were the case, he should appear in the Farplane.

I tend to sound defensive unintentionally as well. Im not fretting. haha

None of the four points stated have any proof to back them. It is just part of some people's idea on what happened, but the game doesnt support any evidence to prove those right. Nor does it support any to prove them wrong. So they remain part of a theory, not facts.

My theory is power rangers > FFX

jecht did die. He died to become the aeon for the Final Summoning. So, if that were the case, he should appear in the Farplane.

I tend to sound defensive unintentionally as well. Im not fretting. haha

None of the four points stated have any proof to back them. It is just part of some people's idea on what happened, but the game doesnt support any evidence to prove those right. Nor does it support any to prove them wrong. So they remain part of a theory, not facts.

Press And Seal makes a good point Jewels. None of these theories can be discredited because there is no proof in the game that they aren't true! However, TheGreenRanger, I think it is fairly obvious that the "Power Rangers" did not star in FFX

ok, that's right, i understand. but could life in the dream of zanarkand really be ever evolving? i mean, do the fayth dream, that zanarkand develops any further as ist once was? for they don't know about a future that never existed, do they...? (confusing, but do you get what i mean?)
I get what you mean. Think of it like this then: when you dream, the content of the dream has never existed. Aeons (like Ifrit, Anima) have never existed in real life, yet they get that form in a dream.


jecht did die. He died to become the aeon for the Final Summoning. So, if that were the case, he should appear in the Farplane.
Jecht became the fayth for the Final Summoning. He doesn't die. When people become fayth, their souls get put in statues.

<blockquote>Lulu: "The fayth are people who gave their lives to battle Sin. Yevon took their souls, willingly given from their still-living bodies."

Tidus: "Huh?"

Lulu: "Now they live forever trapped in statues. But when a summoner beckons, the souls of the fayth emerge once again. That's what we call an aeon."</blockquote>
People can only appear on the Farplane if they accept their death, or if they are sent. Fayth still live. Jecht hadn't been defeated yet, so he couldn't appear on the Farplane.


None of the four points stated have any proof to back them. It is just part of some people's idea on what happened, but the game doesnt support any evidence to prove those right. Nor does it support any to prove them wrong. So they remain part of a theory, not facts.
While there is no explicit proof that Sin can't take people through time, there is absolutely no reason to suggest that it can, especially when considering all the other factors involved.

These are separate quotes from the game:

<blockquote>Bahamut's Fayth: "The remaining summoners and the townspeople that survived the war... They all became fayth-fayth for the summoning."

Tidus: "The summoning... You mean Sin?"

Bahamut's Fayth: "No. I mean this place. A Zanarkand that never sleeps."</blockquote>
So, from that you can see that the remaining summoners and townspeople became fayth for the summoning of Dream Zanarkand. This was just after the war between Zanarkand and Bevelle. I'm sure you know that this war happened a thousand years ago and Zanarkand was destroyed. So, Dream Zanarkand was summoned just after the war, and that was 1000 years ago. Also Sin's purpose is to protect Yu Yevon while he summons:

<blockquote>Bahamut's Fayth: "Then, protected by this new Sin he has created, Yu Yevon continues the summoning."</blockquote>
Sin's purpose is to protect Yu Yevon, and Sin has also existed for 1000 years. So as you can see, Dream Zanarkand has existed for about a thousand years.

If you speak to Maechen on Mt. Gagazet, he'll say this among other thngs:

<blockquote>Maechen: "Rumours flew in Bevelle about Sin's sudden appearence.They said that the people of Zanarkand became the fayth, that they had called Sin. And that the man responsible... Was none other than the summoner Yevon, ruler of Zanarkand!"</blockquote>
So there you have Yu Yevon being the ruler of Zanarkand.

As for Dream Zanarkand existing within Spira, where else would it exist? Yu Yevon is still summoning Dream Zanarkand from within Sin, and Sin exists in Spira. Unless he has the power to summon something on another plane of existence, then it's safe to assume that Dream Zanarkand exists withing Spira.

Edit: In fact, the game designers originally thought to put DZ over Mt. Gagazet in an earlier draft of the game since that is where all the fayth are, and that's also when Tidus had his temporary blackout. But regardless of where it actually is, it exists within Spira.

DUDE!!!!! Yu Yevon does not have any contol over the dream. it's the Fayth's dream, not his.