I didn't like much of the anti-Yevon/anti-Seymour posts in the MPT in FFX-2, so I'm making this thread to clarify everything.

Anti-Yevon #1
Yevon is stupid and they're pussies.

Incorrect. Yevon successfully manipulated a world and its masses for nearly 1000 years. They also did it with little discontent. They kept order and civility in Spira.

They're far from pussies. Yevonites were dedicated and fierce. They followed thier teachings and would destroy any who opposed them.

Anti-Yevon #2
Yevon and Seymour dont' know what Spira needs.

Incorrect, also. Yuna and her friends don't know what Spira needs. After the so-called Eternal Calm came, thieves, vileness and grudges divided the world. Yevon kept everyoen united. Those who weren't with Yevon, were segregated and no one really cared about them. There was no problem.

Seymour is a villain. He cannot be expected to give the right answer. Of course, if all Spira did perish, a true Eternal Calm would take everyone to a much happier place.

Any other questions? Please, ask them. I'll show you how wrong you are.

Any other questions? Please, ask them. I'll show you how wrong you are.


thank god you're here to show us all the error of our ways, but the fact of the matter is, X and X-2 are two of the weakest ff games ever made... still i wish not to offend your amazing intelllect concerning all things yevon and seymour, so i apologise

I didn't like much of the anti-Yevon/anti-Seymour posts in the MPT in FFX-2, so I'm making this thread to clarify everything.
Oh, I can't wait! cause judging by >THIS THREAD< (http://forums.ffshrine.org/showthread.php?p=398471#post398471) you're obviously the expert on any and all the FF games.


Anti-Yevon #1
Yevon is stupid and they're pussies.

Incorrect. Yevon successfully manipulated a world and its masses for nearly 1000 years. They also did it with little discontent. They kept order and civility in Spira.
They're far from pussies. Yevonites were dedicated and fierce. They followed thier teachings and would destroy any who opposed them.
Right..cause manipulation's a great way of ruling a nation/world. Yup..okay... if that's true, then basing their teachings on something they know to be false is just fine and dandy.

Anti-Yevon #2
Yevon and Seymour dont' know what Spira needs.

Incorrect, also. Yuna and her friends don't know what Spira needs. After the so-called Eternal Calm came, thieves, vileness and grudges divided the world. Yevon kept everyoen united. Those who weren't with Yevon, were segregated and no one really cared about them. There was no problem.
Seymour is a villain. He cannot be expected to give the right answer. Of course, if all Spira did perish, a true Eternal Calm would take everyone to a much happier place.
I'll ignore for the moment that HUGE WHOPPING GREAT BIG example of changing tack halfway through an argument, and concentrate on the rest of the statement.
Yevon know what's best for YEVON. That goes for all the Maesters etc. It suits them for people to keep believing that Sin is penance for past crimes, but sacrificing the lives of so many, let alone the summoners, knowing the whole thing's a sham, proves the corruption that goes right to the core of Yevon, so they stay in power, and remain Unsent.
It's a pity that it's followers pass on the lies - look at how the other guardians and Yuna herself hid the truth about her pilgrimage from Tidus, until the Al Bhed let the secret slip.
Seymour's plan...what was that...ah yes...I'll become Sin, and destroy Spira... yup..that's certainly a great idea! True, it'd end the suffering that Yevon has allowed to go on for centuries, but is it REALLY the best way of solving the problem? Go ponder on it, I'll be with Yuna and co. =)

Any other questions? Please, ask them. I'll show you how wrong you are.
Oh please do! I need some entertainment.

You're entering into a complicated political/social issue. Does making the masses aware create more problems or deter them? In Final Fantasy X's case, absolute ignorance helped the world exist peacefully.

Perhaps countless summoners, guardians, warriors and citizens have died because of Sin. However, Spira was on the brink of war when Yevon's order fell apart. War had NEVER broken out, to our knowledge, since Yevon set up its religion after the destruction of Zanarkand 1000 years ago. Two years after its collapse people begin fighting. Mika foresaw the turmoil that would befall Spira due to the disposing of the Final Aeon. He left Spira because he "had no desire to watch Spira die." How heartless and uncaring he was for the people of Spira.

Yevon maintained order through ignorance. Ignorance [i]is[/bi bliss and FFX showed that. Perhaps there was a dark underside to that bliss, but when that bliss was shattered...well, we know what happened.

Thanks so much, Yuna and dumbass people.

Fair enough, apart from the countless deaths of innocents that could have been avoided The world was "peaceful" under Yevon's rule... apart from the racism and perseution directed at the Al Bhed, led by, yup, Yevon! They even tried their hand at genocide, luckily, it didn't work.
So yeah, Yevonites were angels. >:O

Having said that, had Yevon told the truth from the beginning, or as soon as they KNEW the truth, there wouldn't have been the political troubles that there were in X-2, and the Calm would have been just that.

You don't know the story... You learn it on Gagazet in the end. The leaders of Bevelle saw what was left of Zanarkand after its destruction. They didn't want everyone to die. It is another complex issue, sacrificing a few for many. They chose that option. They did it to hopefully keep Yu Yevon from destroying all of Spira.

The Al Bhed issue... That's the only hole in the whole thing. I cannot entirely agree with that. Besides that, though, I totally agree with the Yevon religion.

It was the Guado who attacked Home. There was no official confirmation that it was a Yevon order. It probably came from Seymour, and, we learned, he moved away from Yevon in the end.

You don't know the story...
For the love of god, stop telling me what I do, or don't know/understand.

Yes, Yevon managed to keep peace. They set up a tradition that could have potentially last forever. The Al Bhed were ostracized since they used machina, which was against their teachings. Summoners died in vain. False hope was the only thing that kept the people of Spira going. Sin was eternal, and the people would forever fear a potential attack. They would live in fear, with false hope. But it kept the world peaceful.

Now that's all fine and dandy if the goal was to keep peace among the people of Spira. It did that, under pretenses. That's something I personally don't agree with it. I'm wrong am I? Oh well, sorry for having an opinion on its morality.

Yevon was a completely false religion that gave false hope. Regardless of whether it managed to maintain peace in Spira, it wasn't right. It was the easy way out. Instead of facing up and dealing with the potential problems that could occur, they instead decided to create a false religion. Yes, the Maesters of Yevon were weak. They knew they wouldn't be able to handle the possible rebellion if people knew the truth about Yevon.

Yuna gave the people of Spira what they wanted. Did they want peace? Sure, that would've been nice, but that wasn't the priority. They wanted the Calm. They wanted their fear of Sin diminished. They didn't want to live in fear anymore. Yuna defeated Sin, permanently. There was no false hope. There were no lies to cover up the truth. The Al Bhed were no longer ostracized by everyone based on some false teaching.

To think that destroying Sin will make Spira right is a very limited view. This limited view was shared by all Spira. "The Eternal Calm." Who came up with that name? Well, from what I saw in X-2, it kinda fell apart. Why? Because order and faith had been replaced by hatred and fear.

Yevon and Sin made the world the way it was. Remember the towns and places in FFX? Were there criminals and bastards like Lablanc wandering around? If Yevon had stayed in power, could it have been possible for the Ronso to attempt genocide?

A false religion? Hardly. They worshipped Yu Yevon. He could kill them all. Such worshipping is very understandable. Why face death and lose your beloved Spira? A few may die, but the world shall live. From what we saw, Sin could've easily destroyed everything.

You have played Final Fantasy X, right?

*sigh*

You fail to understand the point I'm trying to make. Do you even know what the Calm is? No Sin. Who said the Calm would bring peace to Spira? I certainly didn't. For the Calm to fall apart, would be for Sin to return. I've played FFX-2, I don't recall Sin being in it.

No there weren't criminals like LeBlanc around. And your point is?

Yevon was a religion, and yes it was a false religion. All those teachings were false. There was no truth behind it. They were lies. So it's hardly a false religion is it? I really wonder what you've been playing. At least try and understand what you're talking about.

Do I have to explain this bit by bit?

The Eternal Calm, like most phrases and words, means something more than what it literally means. The Eternal Calm was a name used by the people to represent that, yes Sin was gone, but there was a chance of eternal peace and happy days were here to stay. I believe Yuna said that she could "feel it slipping away." It's kinda like reading between the lines.

Crime and disorder came into existence when Yevon fell apart. You fail to see what that means? They may have been corrupt at some levels, but they kept corruption out of the people's lives. Makes sense. When a strong party is in power and they are a bit corrupt, but no other party has power, crime is low. It only exists in one area. That is what Yevon did. A good thing, I believe.

You are a moron. Did you not understand what I said? The entire religion was created to protect the people from Sin. They worshipped Yevon, the man that summoned Sin. Can you not understand that? Yevon was a figure that threatened and struck fear within them all and they worshipped him to hopefully avoid the world being destroyed. How can you call that a false religion?

No one knows what the crime rates in Spira were like circa FFX. The game concentrates on (Yu) Yevon, Sin, The (Eternal) Calm and Yevon's lies/false teachings.
So how can you know whether or not crime was low?

Well, unless for some strange reason, there was no crime just for the time period of FFX, then I guess we don't know. We explored Spira, did we not? Did we run into pricks like the Bandits on the Moonflow or people like Lablanc?

That raises another important point. Honor and respect. There was loads of it in Yevon's time. People respected Yuna, summoners, and the Crusaders. After FFX, look what happened.... Zanarkand, a holy resting place, was turned into a tourist attraction... Also, it was an Al Bhed who did it. That really doesn't mean much, but I trust that most people can see where I'm coming from on this issue.

You don't need to resort to name calling.

I think you're failing to see what religion is. They worshipped Yevon, because of what they believed. They believed Sin was their punishment. They believed the Al Bhed were part of why Sin came in the first place. The people of Spira were controlled through fear of Sin. The continuously followed the teachings hoping that one day, after they atone for their crimes Sin will disappear. That it what they believed. However, as you know, all that was false. They believed lies. Therefore, its a false religion. What's so hard to understand about that?

Sure, Yevon did create unity between the people of Spira. However, everything that they did was possible through their own control of people, and yes, based on a lie. They knew it was a lie, and they covered it up with more lies so people wouldn't find out. If they did, they would lose their control. The entire system was a complete fallacy. I don't give a damn whether it kept crime low, or kept people peaceful, it wasn't truthful. It was the ultimate form of deceit. That is weak. They took the easy way out. Controlling people through fear and lies instead of facing up to the potential problems that would occur.

As you can see from FFX-2, there was corruption in peoples lives, however that is a problem they would have to deal with. There was no false religion dictating how they should run their lives. It is far better to deal with the corruption and new crime through truthful means. At the end of FFX-2, a lot of was sorted out, and that was without the use of fear and deceit.

You can't expect just to continue following a false religion, sacrificng lives, living in false hope. That's just pathetic and cowardly. There will be problems, and there will always be problems, but trying to control that through fear and deceit is far worse.

Do I have to explain this bit by bit?

The Eternal Calm, like most phrases and words, means something more than what it literally means. The Eternal Calm was a name used by the people to represent that, yes Sin was gone, but there was a chance of eternal peace and happy days were here to stay. I believe Yuna said that she could "feel it slipping away." It's kinda like reading between the lines.

Crime and disorder came into existence when Yevon fell apart. You fail to see what that means? They may have been corrupt at some levels, but they kept corruption out of the people's lives. Makes sense. When a strong party is in power and they are a bit corrupt, but no other party has power, crime is low. It only exists in one area. That is what Yevon did. A good thing, I believe.

You are a moron. Did you not understand what I said? The entire religion was created to protect the people from Sin. They worshipped Yevon, the man that summoned Sin. Can you not understand that? Yevon was a figure that threatened and struck fear within them all and they worshipped him to hopefully avoid the world being destroyed. How can you call that a false religion?

First off I agree with Jewels completely. Yevon kept everything in order but what does that due if the problem is never solved. Think of it, People continue to die for no reason, believing in a fake religion,being lied to by the peope you trust, (yevon) and Sin would NEVER go away. I dont know about you but I wouldnt want to dedicate my whole life (like Yuna) on learning the teachings of your religion and finding out personally that its all fake. O and I wouldnt call Jewels a moron, she will know more about ffx than what you ever will.

"Fear?" I don't recallee anyone feared Yevon. They feared Sin, but fear kept the world on the straight and narrow. Is that bad?


O and I wouldnt call Jewels a moron, she will know more about ffx than what you ever will.

Heh.

"Fear?" I don't recallee anyone feared Yevon.
Oh, I see now... the Al Bhed had no reason to hide their existence on Bikanel Island... cause they weren't worried about being wiped out.
Thanks for helping me understand. I feel so happy there's someone like you on the forums that can explain everything properly.

"Fear?" I don't recallee anyone feared Yevon. They feared Sin, but fear kept the world on the straight and narrow. Is that bad?
Yevon was a figure that threatened and struck fear within them all and they worshipped him to hopefully avoid the world being destroyed.

If you want to get try and get your point across, don't contradict yourself.

Fear is not a good way to control people. Yes, that's bad. I personally don't feel that it's morally right. You obviously do. You obviously think controlling people through fear, lies and deceit it all good as long as it keeps the peace.

If you want to get try and get your point across, don't contradict yourself.

I have noticed that people here don't understand things very well... Ya see, there was Yevon, the summoner, and Yevon, the religion. Follow me? The Yevon religion was founded because they feared Yevon, the summoner. Understand? I may be going too fast for people that ride the short yellow bus.

Liberty, freedom, and awareness can cause just as many problems as totalitarianism.

Just shut up. Yevon is bad and you know it. No one wants to hear about its false achievements.

"False ahcievements?!" The ignorance! Do you think Spira would've lasted as long as it did if they had tried to kill Sin without the Final Aeon? Is it that hard to imagine that Sin could've killed everyone? They were cautious, and their caution could've very well saved Spira.

Yes I do think is would have lasted. Hey its been 10 years since Lord Braska defeated Sin and its was doing fine with a few deaths here and there but I'm not saying that is good. What I meant by false achievements was their many lies. And I suppose you think Seymour was good too. Yeah I know what you mean, a person that wanted Yuna to choose him as her fayth so that he could become Sin and kill all of the people in Spira so they would be just like him. ( an unsent ) Would that solve the problem? Yeah Seymour totally sounds like a good person to follow. *sarcastic*

He wanted to destroy Spira... He wanted all life to end. If there is no life, there is no pain. A simple idea that anyone can understand.

I dont and I dont think Jewels agrees either.

Seymour... let's see. He was basically a mass suicidal maniac. Let's end the suffering... by dying! I'll kill everyone too! Again, the easy way out. Cowardly. Duh, anyone can understand that. But everyone knows that life is worth living.

Yevon was the religion, Yu Yevon was the summoner. Yes, they're the same thing, but you need to differentiate the two.

So, Yevon was created out of fear. Teachings (false) were made up. People followed these false teachings due to fear. They believed a bunch of lies. This managed to last for a thousand years. Lives were sacrificed. Every day, more false hope was being generated. For generations people died without knowing the truth. Isn't that just a sad way to live? Oh, obviously as long as it keeps peace it's ok... not.

Yes, Spira could've lasted as long as it did without Yevon. I don't see why not. There could've been other alternatives. If people found out the truth about Yevon, they would know that the Final Aeon was not the only way to defeat Sin. The Al Bhed wouldn't be ostracized just for using machina. It could've been Operation Mi'ihen on bigger scale. Most of all, it would have been truthful. No lies to cover things up.


Liberty, freedom, and awareness can cause just as many problems as totalitarianism.
Just as many. Maybe more, maybe less. But that's not the issue here. The issue here is that Yevon was FAKE. That's the problem. If it were real, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

You are so wrong. The religion of Yevon was founded out of fear of the summoner Yevon's wrath. They spread the summoner Yevon's teachings. So, they took some rules, and made it into a religion. Wow. That doesn't sound familiar. A group of people, taking some laws that are guides of how to live, and worshipping a higher power for one reason or another... Totally unheard of.

Perhaps it is the easy way out, to destroy all existence. Easy, but some times the best answers are easy. To kill all existence is to take away all potential pain and hatred. You go to a blissful world. Life is pain. Why not go to a world where pain doesn't exist?

Ok, don't you go getting all suicidal. That's basically what that attitute is.

If you don't think Yevon was a false religion, then you really need to start understanding what religion is. You cannot believe how so wrong you are. I don't really know how many times I have to repeat this so I'll say this in the clearest way I can just so you can hopefully understand. If you still can't understand and just say the same things again, then I won't say anymore on the matter.

Religion is based on faith. People who follow that religion believe its teachings and have the faith that its true. That's what Christianity, Islam and all of the religions of today are like. People follow those religions and believe their teachings.

Belief. You need faith to believe that a certain thing is true. If you found out the truth, there would be no need to believe, since the truth is already there.

Right, you see where I'm going with this? If the truth was already revealed, there would be no need to believe. 10 x 10 = 100. That's fact. You don't need to believe that it's true.

Yevon had teachings, that included:
- Sin was punishment for people's crimes.
- Sin will be gone once the people atone for their crimes.
- Machina is bad.
- The Final Aeon is the only way to defeat Sin.

People believed that. Remember what I said about belief? The Maesters knew that those teachings were false. The truth about those teachings were that they were simply not true. Yet, they lied to the people of Spira, and the people of Spira continued to believe those teachings. They had faith that they were true. So yes, it was a religion. But the truth about the teachings were that they were false. Nothing in the Yevon religion was true. Therefore, it's a false religion.

For today's religions like Christianity, Islam and Hinduism, it's not known whether they are true or not. If someone did know the truth, then it's possible that some of the religions may be false. You'll have hordes of people following a false religion.

Now, is there anything you don't understand about that? I didn't mean it was a false religion in the sense that it wasn't a religion at all. Otherwise I would've simply said that it wasn't a religion. It was a religion, yes. It was real in the sense that it existed. However, it was fake.