I can't believe you guys are still playing this game. Move on, this game is boring. Zz(~_~)

I just started playing, I think its quite good.

I can't believe you guys are still playing this game. Move on, this game is boring. Zz(~_~)

lol

Just because YOU started playing sooner than us and that YOU got bored doesn't mean WE should get bored right away. We'll stop playing when we feel there's nothing else we want to do and/or just plain not having fun anymore. That simple. And considering I'm only in the middle of both Zilart and CoP Missions, that's not likely to happen soon.

Hi Luke! :D

I'm still enjoying XI whenever I can.

Haha, you'll definitly see how boring FFXI is. I haven't played it for around 6-8 months, I recently went around and checked all the major FFXI traffic sites... and nothing has changed... It's the same old comments about how the dragons added in Promathia don;t drop anything worth a damn, and other that that all the content discussed is the same shit that was there a year and a half ago.

I dunno, I just don;t see how people can't see how horrible that game is... the people at Square have no imaginations, the game is drab, dull and boring in ever sense of the word. I understand the importance of making the little Level Up animation important (I'm actually feeling the result of it not being as important in WoW) but it's entirely too time consuming to level in this game, and you reap little reward for it endgame. Square also has no imagination at all, the "Gods" you fight look exactly all the other mobs you've already seen in the game (they don't even change the color... they look exactly the same, they're just a little bigger). It takes entirely way to long to get a party/raid together to fight any of the endgame mobs and once ypu get a strategy it's pretty much like clockwork and way too boring. Any game where I can fall asleep in the middle of a party or raid and still do a good job (which I have done in this game many times) isn't worth playing imo.

The missions and quests in this game are another thing... I hated how noninclusive they were... you always feel like just an observer to everything that's going on. I always felt like my character was just being used and wasn't really a part of the big picture. The NPC's would have you go around and get insanely hard to get items or beat hard bosses and just be like "Thanks now I can go ahead and enter this new area!" and the fact that you could get in there too was just an extra thing.

Square could seriously do so much better. They did an "ok" job for a first time MMO company, but this game really isn't that good. It come off to me as a project Square stuck it's worsts artists and designers on. That's probably not true, but it seems that way.

I had realized this long before I ever got to the endgame, honestly. At first I was so excited, though it was the best game ever, etc... but some where around level 50 or so that went away. By that time I had joined a really awesome LS though and really like the people there, so I stayed and continued to play. I quit this game for WoW (which was a really good decision) long before anyone else in my shell, but soon after they all saw the light. I'm now playing WoW in a guild with practically all the same people I was playing FFXI with.

That's the real point of all this, WoW > FFXI, it's a fact. I really wanted to rip FFXI apart by comparing it to WoW, but there really is no comparison, WoW is superior, end of story. :P

I'll reply to this post with a rather dumb reason to hate WoW.

I hate the GUI. :(

The GUI in WoW is customizable, the whole interface is programmable. They made it in Lua and XML and there's already mods that completely change how it looks. Besides, you get used to it and it's really not that bad.

My favorite mod was Gypsy Mod (http://gypsymod.the-mad.net/) but I couldn't use it because it wasn;t working with some of the addonds I used. All the windows in gypsy mod are repositionble and they completely redesigned the toolbar. Trust me there's people that don;t like the GUI as much as you, obviously they did something to change it. :P I don't think not liking the GUI is worth not playing it anyway, it's a great game.

Well if you have time, something I just happen to have an abundance of, then you tend not to find XI as stressful as others. Despite all the drama, time(sinks) still remains the main reason why people quit this game.

Even I still gripe about the time it takes to obtain certain things, especially experience and money. And then there's crafting...Typo isn't an avid crafter because the system is far too flawed for its own good, and is something that only the few "elite" (read: those who dedicate months to endless crafting, and also have a way to get rich quick on the side to be able to raise any craft to anything above 60 in the first place) will fully benefit from.

Sure it's essential to challenge the gamer so that they earn rewards rather than simply take them, but FFXI does go overboard in many areas. However, for each flop the game makes, there's always something that redeems it and makes it tolerable, and then fun again, which is why some people have been into it from the time it was in its testing phase in Japan. ._. Similarly, for every person I've heard and read saying what you have, "WoW > FFXI, it's a fact", I've heard and seen people dump it and return to FFXI, or move onto something else because they are of the opinion that WoW is too easy, and that its community doesn't seem as friendly or as sophisticated on the whole in comparison to XI's.

Typo's still around for a number of reasons, the most prominent of which are me friends, conquering HNM and Gods with a well put-together LS, becoming personally experienced with as many jobs as possible, and a distant desire to see the end of CoP.

The only "fact" here is that those of us who remain still have our reasons for doing so, even though most of us by now have come to realize the serious downfalls the game has; some are only around for the sake of their friends, and there's no crime in it if friendship is what keeps you around.

You make some valid points, so here are a few counterpoints:

The end game in FFXI really REALLY drab. This is really one thing that let me down. The battles (like gods, etc) are kind of tough, but for the time and effort you put in to killing them, the rewards don't seem to match the effort put forth. Sure you get an abjuration from a God, but then you still have to go and buy (or have someone craft) a cursed item and pay for it to get uncursed. And even after that, stats in FFXI hardly amount to anything (trust me, I was in a guild of powergamers and they tested it extensively. The damage and whatnot gained from stat boosts in that game are almost minimal, the only thing that really seems to matter is level. There are a few excepts, like mp regen armour and whatnot, but as for actual stats it's practically useless. Not only that but FFXI has a bunch of gear with "hidden attributes" and whatnot, which I personally think was an awful thing to do. Tell people the abilities a weapon has up front, seriously. Most people would make the connection that "Wind Staff" will increase your damage with wind spells and wouldn't even bother picking it up because it has shitty ass stats.

Also, Square went all wrong with the things they actually use as time sinks. Especially when most of thier time sinks are insanely boring and costly (1 million gil for dynamis? as if shit in that game isnt expensive enough?). As if they isn't bad enough they have weapons (like the ones in Dynamis) that are such a pain to obtain. I hardly ever think Square is even concerned that thier playbase is even having fun, they are just concentrating on keeping people playing the game.

The people who think WoW is too easy probably only took the time to level through the first 20 levels or so. The thing that really makes WoW shine is the high level content. You think shit in FFXI is hard? I went on a raid (40 player max) into a place called molten core which is currently one of the hardest raid areas in the game. We didn't even make it down the ramp into the main area (and this was done with a full raid, almost everyone at 60, with 2 powerguilds working together). Trust me.. this game is hard. Another thing I love about the battle system in wow is that most bosses and higher level mobs have the ability to independantly target random people to attack with magic or ranged attack, besides the tank they are fighting, it really adds a sense in unpredictability and keeps you on your toes... there's seriously no fallling asleep in the game or youll be dead in the first 5 mins.

The reason why people say that the community isn;t as friendly is because it's not. Half or more of all the players on the server will be on the opposing factions side and you can;t even talk or communicate with these people, Alliance and Horde are the factions and they both speak different languages. World of Warcraft is exactly that, a world at war, Horde is fighting Alliance, Allaince is fighting Horde. One thing that was always missing from FFXI was the ability to do player vs player combat whenever you wanted (they didn't even allow dueling, bleh). They tried to remedy that but again they majorly dropped the ball by scheduling it, only allowing it open to certain factions and making you pay for it. In WoW you don;t have to deal with any of that crap, walk into a contested territory and you are automatically flagged for pvp and you can attack whoever the hell you want. This adds a whole lot of fun (and frusteration at times) to the game, and the pussies who can't stand it end up dropping the game, good for them.. don;t need people like that in a game like WoW anyway (of course theres also pve and RP servers where pvp is never turned on unless you attack the other factions NPC's or unless you are in an arena). You can also duel people from your own faction any time you want by targeting them, right clicking and selecting "duel."

Noy only that but Blizzard beats the pants off of Square for customer relations and support. Worldofwarcraft.com beats the pants off of playonline any day of the week. Photo contests, fan page highlights, message boards, and actual updates stright from the developers who sometimes post on the boards themselves.

Don't get me wrong though, there are some things I miss about FFXI, like the combo/magic burst system, actually fun holiday stuff (blizzard still needs to work on this), having your own house you can put stuff in, and of course moogles. But it's not really enough to make me wanna keep sleeping at the keyboard in order to play the game (and I know I keep saying that, but it's 100% true.. I have fallen asleep at the keyboard and still did what I needed to do in FFXI... in an xp party).

and the pussies who can't stand it end up dropping the game, good for them.. don;t need people like that in a game like WoW anyway

...And this really is the kind of attitude that repells alot of the more conservative players and makes them lean towards FFXI's more cooperative community. Sure there are separate servers for non PVP, but is it safe from the abundance of 12-year old drivel that bnet is so infamous for? And sure too, you'll have your fair share of assholes on any given FFXI server, but generally you're looking at a player-base full of people who wish to actually socialize and have lasting relationships as opposed to just making a team to last a couple hours, only to completely forget who they shared that experience with.

Looking back on my D2 days, I'm already wary as to what kind of behaviour I can expect from a bnet community. I've heard that the kind of childish, immature and self-centered conduct that was all over D2 has already infested WoW's "community". 'Course I wouldn't know this from experience, and would rather remain ignorant to the truth behind that because I really don't feel the need to switch games. I'm content to go on what I've heard from friends: I've heard general positives about gameplay, mainly that it's faster-paced than XI, which is a plus for most people. You can swim, and do things like jump off high ledges and stuff. But then there's the opinion that level ups come too quickly, the craft system having no depth compared to FFXI's artificially huge crafting system, and of course, with there being more freedom to solo, people tend to be more independent which eliminates that sense of togetherness that is present throughout the bulk of FFXI.

*shrugs* I hear good and bad, but I can't be influenced, either way. :3

Now I wasn't before, and am not now trying to say, "you should stick to FFXI because it's better than WoW in XYZ way" in case that's how I'm coming off. After all, I can respect and relate to all the things you find dull and boring about FFXI, as even I feel similarly at times. XI, other MMORPGs, and pretty much any other traditional RPG out there that'll keep you for over 100 hours is bound to start to seem like a chore or job after all that time. This is where many draw the line and quit.

As for the others...?

Perhaps this particular feeling had already worn itself thin on you, but personally, the fact that I'm in this with people I've crafted relationships and strong bonds with over the past year+ is a simple key factor that motivates me to want to continue, no matter how arduous or monotonous everyday FFXI life can get. It has its up times and its downs, really, and yes, even though FFXI character stats themselves may not speak as many volumes as some other RPGs', I still aspire for Zenith abjurations, BLM AF2 and the like. Whataru can Typo say, I can't help meself~!:3

That comment was solely because of the pvp aspects (faction vs faction). My guild has good relations with many of the other guilds in our faction on our server and weve actually raided with a few of them and came to thier aid when there were big pvp battles going on. There aren't a whole lot of the typical "bnet kiddies" mainly because you have to pay to play WoW, which eliminates a lot of the asshole/retarded players simply because they want shit free. There are people that are kind of stingy and selfish because a game like this that allows you to be that way if you want (where as with FFXI you are forced into grouping if you even wanna set foot in a new area. something I wasn't too fond of). WoW does has it's drawbacks, don't get me wrong, but they are a lot fewer than FFXI's, I think.

The crafting system isn't too in depth, but the thing is you can actually USE the things you make. In FFXI you mainly had to vendor (or god forbid try to seel in AH) a bunch of useless crap just to get your skill level up. Also, I like Squares gathering/profession skill thing. You can't just pick up a stack of pickaxes and bame you're a minor (one of the most confusing and idiotic things about FFXI), you can only choose 2 professions and most of them have a needed gathering profession to go along with the crafting one. This offers a lot of different opportunities for people, you can choose a crafting skill and it's subsiqurnt gathering profession, choose 2 gathering professions, or choose a couple of professions that you don't need gathering skills for (tailoring/enchanting for example, if you know anything about WoW). Also the ingrediants needed to make the item are right there all the time after you learn to make the item, you never fail or break a synth either, the challenge comes from gathering the needed items. FFXI's crafting system is about as idiotic as square could've made it. No way to really get a list of ingrediants for a synth in game (forcing you to look on a webpage.. even though you can't minimize FFXI), hard to get ingrediants, and it still has a chance to fail and break wasting either a ton of time or a bunch of money. WoW's crafting system is superior, not exactly because of depth, but because of usefulness of them items and ease of use. Not to mention the fact that if you do need to make trash items to skill up when you vendor them most of the time you get equal or more money for the item.

Like I said Square put thier time and money sinks in all the wrong places. Not only that but they are boring. The time sinks in WoW are actually entertaining. Nothing to do? Organize a raid on an opposing factions city and have something to do for hours. Go out by yourself and kill mobs for xp/drops/money/faction. Look for an instance group/raid. There might even be more to do on the RP servers.. probably a lot more people standing around talking to each other. The main thing I really like about WoW is the fact that everytime you log on you can always find something to do, be it screw around, party up, or go out by yourself there's always something to do. In FFXI to do anything interesting you pretty much HAVE to get a group.. no matter what.. even to fight lower level mobs.. it's rediculous.

I dunno how your server is, but on Carbuncle there wasn't really a whole lot of community. Maybe there was just a lot of ill will towards our guild, but it didn't seem to just be us. Everyone in might of the high end guilds on Carbuncle were always at each others throats. Our guild was definitly one of the least popular ones, mainly I think because people were jealous. The Japs and koreans hated us for obvious reasons, we didn;t have a single japanese or korean player in our guild, we didn;t ask for thier help, and we were stealing thier sunlight, taking thier NM's and just generally got in thier face a lot. It needed to be done though, they weren't going to just let us stroll right in there. The english guilds all hated on us cause we had the most talented players in the server, and while we were slow going we eventually started getting better and surpassing them without the help of any japanese players (lots of the english guilds would claim they've done this and that, but really they would just be switching to different shells and be getting a lot of japanese help). Did we have anything against japanese players? not really, but we were glad to be the only truly english speaking guild that was doing things on our on, without asking for help from the japanese players. No on respected that though, especially not any of the japanese people.. they would try thier hardest to screw us over at any possible occasion.

I've actually had more conflict and drama in FFXI than I ever have in WoW...

I just don't like the route Square is taking, they just really seem less about providing entertainment and more about keeping players playing as long as they possibly can. I'm mean sure it's exciting to get an abjuration or get a scorpion harness made, but was it really all that fun to get? I never honestly had any fun in the downtime between raiding and xp sessions, if you aren't in a group there's simply nothing to do. The main difference in FFXI and WoW is that WoW is more entertaining. The guys at Blizzard are also a lot more in tune with MMO players and community than Square could ever hope to be. There was one time a while ago where the WoW servers were being really shitty for a few days.. the president of Blizzard wrote a long letter of appology, outlining what happened and what they were going to do to make sure it didn't happen again and he gave everyone who had accounts created at that time a free 4 day extention. That floored me, the guys at Blizzard geniunely seem to care about thier playerbase, I doubt you'll ever see any of the FFXI developers do that.

All in all, whether you play or not one MMORPG over another , to me, is mostly based on the community and the fun you made yourself it to be.


You're damn right, FFXI has its ups and down, and so must WoW as well.

But I think the main reason you're liking WoW so much over FFXI, right now, is simply because you've burned yourself with FFXI and haven't with WoW yet.

I'd say wait a few months, and when you'll have played AS MUCH TIME with WoW as you did with FFXI, let's see if you'll still believe everything you're defending right now.

WoW is having a fresher look right now, and has the quicker pace and easier leveling route than FFXI, which alone would make any FFXI player quit it for WoW, however I seriously doubt that high-level content is as rich as you mentionned, since you're the first ever I heard saying something like that. If it is, all the better, but if some raid is all you can bring for high-level content, well you know what ? I'd rather have missions over that anyday.

So community in FFXI is bad because everyone hated your LS just because you had the "most talented players" ? That sounds pompous and arrogant at best. If that's how you guys defined yourselves, I've got news for you, they didn't hate you because you were stealing their NMs ( although that's one reason to have some kind of rivalry ), they hated you because if you were acting as if you were the best, that arrogance probably slightly annoyed them. I'm not saying you guys weren't good, far from it, but saying you were the best ? Heh, I'll take that with a grain of salt. Community makes or break a MMORPG, really. And whether or not you prefer one aspect of it will make or break most of the game for you. If it so happens you like PvP and individuality, no wonder you prefer WoW. If it so happens you prefer actually role-playing and adventuring, though, no wonder you prefer FFXI.

Seriously, my only point here is this : You're having fun right now with another game ? Awesome. Wait until you've played the same amount of time and completely seen avery aspect of it to correctly judge over a game you've done everything you were interested in. You've only played WoW for a fraction of the time you've played FFXI yet you're making it sound it's 10 times better than FFXI. That sounds a bit hastened, just like WoW's leveling system...but I disgress.


Oh, one last thing, pal : Saying it's a "fact" that one game is better than another is pure fiction. This can only be a "opinion", and will remain so as long as there isn't nobody who can contest it, which won't happen with something that's used for hobbies like videogames.

Bah Dave, took me so long to post this you managed to sneak in and say everything I was going to "X3 Oh well!



In FFXI to do anything interesting you pretty much HAVE to get a group.. no matter what.. even to fight lower level mobs.. it's rediculous.

Definitely one of XI's lower points. I'm not a big fan of that element of perpetual dependancy on others that you have to have, and more often than not it forces people to come together and sometimes causes major problems for people who need quests done like sub job or genkai, or items like carbuncle mitts or opo crown - you already know that drill. It's hard for me to explain the good side to this since I'm having trouble putting my finger on exactly what that good thing actually is... but it's there. It isn't so much that the game has become so much of a habit that I just don't want to leave, I'd stop wasting my money if that were the case.


I dunno how your server is, but on Carbuncle there wasn't really a whole lot of community. Maybe there was just a lot of ill will towards our guild, but it didn't seem to just be us. Everyone in might of the high end guilds on Carbuncle were always at each others throats.

I've actually had more conflict and drama in FFXI than I ever have in WoW...

I'm sure things like this occur somewhere in the high level ranges of all servers. Your FFXI LS reminds me of KoN (KnightsofNi) on Cerberus. They're pretty much sitting at the top with their Koenig and Dalmaticas and god gear and such, and practically own ground HNM like Fafnir and have been doing so for months. It's sometimes hard to believe that they play fair with the frequency that they don't lose pulls, and their sometimes poor attitude towards other players doesn't help their reputation very much either. Whatever the case is, they're good. They have lots of RNG and BLM. Oh yeah, they have skilled players too, probably more than any other NA LS on the server, and that's the kind of thing that puts you on top. It's also the kind of thing that inspires jealousy and the spreading of rumours, causing more drama. Meh.

Incidentally, we don't have too much JP competition (thankfully).

It'd be ideal, but unrealistic to not have a conflict between HNMLSes, since the way the "end-game" is structured there's hardly room for many people to participate in it all at once (ie. if a mere 2 or 3 LSes are out there hunting HNM, especially in sky, chances are they'll be competing for them, and the long pop/wait times and lousy drop rates encourage all the fighting and cheating and such). No community's a utopia, unfortunately... HNMLSes on Cerberus will get along for the most part, just as long as they don't find themselves going after the same things each day. Hmm. KI's boards are sometimes a prime example of just how much drama can arise in such a situation.

From my experience so far, however, you're only likely to be deeply affected by this if you feel the only thing that's left for you to do is fight this and that enemy, and get this and that item, and that's all you do every single day. I can see people having problems there. Differently, people like me who don't mind going back to the low level jobs, or don't mind just hanging around being with friends, we don't seem to have this problem.. Also, the battle system is still very interesting to me, and very enjoyable if I'm in a team that works well and grabs good exp per hour. Although seeing the story through to the end isn't currently a high priority of mine (it never is for me in any RPG anyway, I'm more into leveling, stat-building, and complete collection of items), I'm still genuinely interested in Vana'diel's history, its present, and future.


I just don't like the route Square is taking, they just really seem less about providing entertainment and more about keeping players playing as long as they possibly can. I'm mean sure it's exciting to get an abjuration or get a scorpion harness made, but was it really all that fun to get? I never honestly had any fun in the downtime between raiding and xp sessions, if you aren't in a group there's simply nothing to do. The main difference in FFXI and WoW is that WoW is more entertaining. The guys at Blizzard are also a lot more in tune with MMO players and community than Square could ever hope to be. There was one time a while ago where the WoW servers were being really shitty for a few days.. the president of Blizzard wrote a long letter of appology, outlining what happened and what they were going to do to make sure it didn't happen again and he gave everyone who had accounts created at that time a free 4 day extention. That floored me, the guys at Blizzard geniunely seem to care about thier playerbase, I doubt you'll ever see any of the FFXI developers do that.

I hate repeating myself so much, and I'm sure it's getting old now, but the fact remains that FFXI has a strong, closely-knit community where friendships can easily be built and valued for a long time. I can't stress enough how important that is to me, to help me enjoy the game even more, and it's probably a staple reason for most people to hang around even after they're bored with the game's content. Maybe it's because of the fact that you must spend so much time with others to get ahead that this is true.. I'm no expert on Japanese culture so I don't want to get too deep into this, but it's often been said that this game has been made to a more Japanese-oriented way of thinking that matches their society's work ethic: they prefer to accomplish their goals as a team and take pride in that, rather than struggle through on their lonesome, and so that is how the game was structured. There's more to it than that of course, but it's all that needs to be mentioned to reinforce the element of teamwork and cooperation that SE pushes so strongly in FFXI, and I really can't and won't attack them for bringing this concept into a videogame.

SE's customer support isn't perfect, but uh, servers are stable. Not much to say there, really.

FFXI has just worn thin on you. Many people just starting out in FFXI are likely to sing its praises and only see the good in it, just like you are with WoW right now. I'm positive though, that something in WoW will stress you out similarly one day, and you'll need something new again, and so you'll move on. It's just a matter of time.

Bah Dave, took me so long to post this you managed to sneak in and say everything I was going to "X3 Oh well!


lol Glad to...hum... "be of service" ? /bow

I do have to concur with both of you about the "can't do anything on your own" part. I still remember the 3 weeks I had to wait just to have enough help to get my Gallant Surcoat. And was it worth the wait ? Hard to say, even though I'm glad to have it now. As Brian pointed it out, it is both FFXI's biggest asset as well as its greatest liability. It encourages teamwork and friendship yet it forces it so much on us you can't do much on your own.

I'll also add what I heard bout KoN... I don't know much, but yes I heard that were rather arrogant. So, really, I'm not going to hate them just because they managed to snatch a NM to me , but I will if they try to MPK me just because I snatched it from them, or if they start being cocky and such. It's just as I explained it to you in my previous post, Crayzieman. If other LSes were hating yours, it probably wasn't so much as for the plain being quicker on the NM pop rather than having some attitude, most likely.

And as Brian said, no one ever said we NEED to do only HNMs or such once we reach level 70+. I know I want to complete missions, and help my pals in the LS, or maybe even work on a different job ( I was thinking about SAM or DRG ). And by the way I completed most missions I wanted to, who knows ? There might have been new content added ? So I'll see about that.

In short , I'll simply repeat my main argument, which boiled down to Brian's conclusion as well : You're enjoying WoW more simply because you've burned yourself with FFXI and not with WoW yet, while we are still enjoying FFXI because we feel like we still have things to do. It's that simple.

The community might not have been bad on other servers, but on Carbuncle it was pretty bad. There was a high "old skool" Japanese population, since Carbuncle was one of the original servers, and a lot of old NA EQ people (which is what the bulk of my guild was made of). This lead to a lot of head butting and fighting between NA and jap guilds alike... Also when I say we were the best guild I mean for our server, I also mean the best predominatly NA guild. It was a fact, mainly because a lot of the other guilds had a ton of in-fighting which led to splintering off of guilds, which split good players apart. We absorbed a few of those into our guild, as well as the fact that most of our members who were really good players stuck with us through thick and thin... we had the most powerful, most skilled guild on Carbuncle. There were some Jap LS's that could blow us out of the water though, no doubt.. and we were still learning a lot. But we accomplished a lot and I only played the game for about 8 months or so. Not too long for how much we accomplished (beating about 3 or 4 dynamis areas, killing Kirin and all the other gods that lead to him, killing endless amounts of NM's.. we did a lot in a short time).

FFXI didn't really wear thin on me, the only reason why I stopped playing it was because I heard WoW was coming out with open beta. I played WoW and realized it was a superior game with a superior development team backing it. If WoW hadn't came out I'd probably still playing FFXI too.

One of the main things I keep hearing people say about WoW is that you aren't forced into a group, therefor there is never any sense of teamwork or anything involved in it. This is one of the most false statements and I hear it a lot. It is true that you can get to the level cap (currently 60) without ever needing to group once, but to be able to do all the really run stuff like instance or elite quests you really have to group because there is no way to solo them at all. A single person level 60 or not walking into any one of the higher level (and quite a few of the mid level ones) will get killed in a few hits. The high level raid instances (<-- notice the "S" Dave? yeah I'll get to that in a minute) would get a person who isn't a tank killed in 1 hit. These instances are HARD trust me...

Now as for me only coming up with one thing? Sure I said one thing for an example but it's not like that's the only one. There's plenty of high level content in WoW. Molten Core, Onyxia's Lair, Stratholm, Upper and Lower Black Rock Spire, Scholomance, etc. The game has only been out about 2 months and there's already tons of content. With all the quests aviliable in WoW I'd even be willing to be that theres more than FFXI including all the missions.

There's also plenty of "roleplaying and adventuring" you can do in WoW and most of it doesn;t require you getting a bunch of people just to go into a new zone. Roleplaying wouldn;t be too hard either if you realy wanted to do it. WoW has a really rich, dense, long storyline you can work off of. It also has one of the largest set of emotes I've ever seen in a game, with everything from serious to silly (/violin * You play the worlds smallest violin). Not only that but you can sit in chairs, build camp fires, get drunk (yes they have alcohol in the game and yes if you drink enough it does effect your character), dance (with actual dancing animations) and lots of other stuff to just have fun with.

I honestly can't really say much about the communities on other servers, but I know the one I'm on is quite hostile.. but I like it like that.. it's what I prefer. I'm sure some of the pve and especially RP servers are a lot more tone down. The server I'm on though has a lot of ex-EQ Sullon Zek players (which is one of the most widely known extremely hostile griefing pvp EQ servers). Theres also about a 50:50 Aliiance:Horde ratio too, so there's plenty on conflict. Besides community doesn't completely make a MMO, because of the game is exactly that.. a game that people will still play whether they hate the people they are playing with or not (FFXI and Carbuncle was a shining example of this). If you want pure community go play Furcadia (http://www.furcadia.com/) or something.

As for WoW being a great game as a fact, I really don't see how you can argue with 250,000 games being sold on the first day of release with over 200,000 accounts created the same day. That's 1/5th of Squares total accounts after 2 years all in one day. Not only a week later WoW had sold more than 700,000 games...

And DL: repete yourself all you want, I'm having fun debating. :>

[edit]

We really had to be abrasive on Carbuncle because the Japanese players weren't being very cooperative. Trust me, for a while there we tried to be all nice and keep good relations, but it was getting us nowhere. We just decided to say fuck it and started stealing NM's from people. Our first big controversy was over Aquarius in Boyahda Tree. We had really wanted to fight this mob for a while, but every time it was up fag ass bsts would be killing it, one time it was up and chasing a BST with no pet around, we were tired of getting our shit together and heading out there only to see some jap bst killing it, so we decided just to steal it sinc eit was practically at full life anyway. That cause a bunch of shit and what is really what started our crusade to be the best NA linkshell while taking as little or no help from the japanese at all (you should've seen all the shit stealing this one worthless NM caused.. we were all over japanese websites and shit... it was really stupid).

As for WoW being a great game as a fact, I really don't see how you can argue with 250,000 games being sold on the first day of release with over 200,000 accounts created the same day. That's 1/5th of Squares total accounts after 2 years all in one day. Not only a week later WoW had sold more than 700,000 games...



Yes, that would be a FACT that it has to be a great game to sell this well. I didn't say otherwise. But you stated that WoW is better than FFXI. That is an OPINION. :)

Yeah, I noticed the S with raid instanceS. And good thing you did mention it, because at first you made it sound like raids are all that matters in end-game...wait, you still did, did you not ? Hmm, well there are missionS too, you know... And what's the main difference between a raid and a HNM ? It's more fun ? Yeah, must be... AT FIRST. You'll grow tired from just as much as you were from HNMs, which brings us back to my main argument : You just got tired from FFXI, and haven't yet from WoW, that's why you believe it's much better. WoW may have sold much more copies than FFXI, but that's partly due to the hype coming from it and from EQ and FFXI players that grew tired of their games. If you REALLY want to compare WoW's success with FFXI, compare it with FFXI when WoW's been around for 2 years as well. Then you'll have basis for comparison. Otherwise it's comparing apples and oranges.

I remember having that discussion with a friend from the Bar... It also explains one major thing about the WoW players and the FFXI players. FFXI players are a lot less PVP oriented than others, which explain the difference in liking one game or the other. You can't just up and say that makes them better opinion-oriented than the other, now can you ? I'm not the kind of people that defines camping the corpse of a newbie player just to kill him again as soon as he respawns just because he's in the horde and I'm in the alliance as being "fun", which is something that DOES happen in WoW... In fact, I dislike ganking , no matter what. I've got to admit I would like some dueling in whatever form in FFXI. As in, you send the invite to someone and then that person answers, and no one can be involved in the fight. That would be great. But ganging up on weaker players and/or just preventing them to do their thing while they weren't bothering anyone for you own selfish fun ? No thanks.


In short, yeah, that's another thing I wanted to bring in : Most FFXI players dislike PvP in general, while WoW usually don't. That's a different mentality, and that fact alone can't really make one game better than the other. Because, just in case you didn't get my point yet, I never said that FFXI was better than WoW. I'm just answering to your claim that WoW is better than FFXI. That's it.

Yes the bulk of all the end game stuff does -involve- instances at the moment. The quests you do in order to open new areas and go other places usualy involve you going all over the place and doing lots of things though, just like a mission. The quest to get the key to enter Onyxia's Lair has around 10 or so steps that involves you going to not only instances but areas all around the world. Killing certain raid bosses, killing dragons, and gathering items are just a few of the things you need to do. Blizzard is already working on adding content that doesn't (as far as I know) involve instance... like a quest that lets you open an ancient gate in Silithus.. a land over run by bugs. It'll basically be like opening a flood gate into an entirely new area, and once it's open anyone can go inside... instead of like in FFXI where you get the key to a gate yet no one can be sneaky and run in after you open because opening the gate is a seperate animation. I always thought this was silly.

That's another thing, a few posts back I mentioned how it seemed like you were just being using in FFXI. This is one thing I really like about WoW.. the quests you can do actually effect change on the world and the people around you. Finishing one part of the quest to get Onyxia's key gives everyone in Orgrimmar a really sweet buff the improves armour, attack speed and mana regen rate.

Also mounts in this game own chocobos.

No mithra.

Typowin~!

No mithra.

Typowin~!

Catgirls are just the japanese' attempt to make beastiality less guilty.

I'm a Beastmaster. Check da sig. Mrrrrrrow~ *purr claw purr*

Catgirls are just the japanese' attempt to make beastiality less guilty.

Who said the Japanese feel guilty? :3

:(

Who said the Japanese feel guilty? :3

Not me. And I think the North Americans and Europeans don't feel guilty AT ALL, either. lol

Noy only that but Blizzard beats the pants off of Square for customer relations and support. Worldofwarcraft.com beats the pants off of playonline any day of the week. Photo contests, fan page highlights, message boards, and actual updates stright from the developers who sometimes post on the boards themselves.

That made me laugh, thank you.

The developers never post on the forums. It's just forum mods who report back to them.
Also, WoW suffers from a large lack of information. They're getting better at asking people what's wrong, but they still aren't telling us shit for what's coming, or when the next patch will be.

Frankly, there should've been a patch within a few days of release to fix all the balance issues, not 3+ months away.
Which brings me to my next point, which is the god awful class balance. The fact that it's very hard to beat a paladin, the fact that hunters and priests and have absolutley no class quests while every other one does, the fact that Paladins and Warlocks get their mount for free while Priests and Rogues get nothing at level 40, the fact that priests are the most underplayed class yet they insist on nerfing non-broken things, the fact that Hunters, Rogues, and Warlocks are nearly useless end-game, the incredible amount of Warrior and Warlock bugs and problems, the nearly game-breaking Aspect of the Hawk bug that blizzard has known about for a month and has done nothing about yet... etc...

Also, I think you're exaggerating the end-game content. Onyxia (and high level equipment) are jokes - you have to run instances for weeks on end to get to her/get the stuff. Plus, most of those instances are ran in raids so it doesn't take many hours, further decreasing the chance of getting what you want. Mm.. and also, Onyxia is supposed to be low-end raid content, so I can't even imagine the ridiculous requirements for the future bosses.

There's countless other problems as well...


However, it has way too many advantages over FFXI beyond that, mainly the fact that it's economy system isn't god-awful and that you don't have to spend a ton of time farming/camping/crafting to advance.

Neither game is perfect, but I personally think WoW is much better. O:

The Devs do post on the forums, just not much. There's a huge post somewhere in the warrior forums that a dev did about some of the issues with warriors.

I do think you're right about the game being released buggy, but no game has been released perfectly. You shouldve seen the UO and EQ releases... Compared to them WoW was smooth. No one here can really say anything about the FFXI release cause it had been out for over a year before it ever even hit the states. And, though I can;t really speak our for Blizzard, but I don't think they were too happy releasing the game when they did.. before WoW came out Vivendi (the company who originally released EQ) bought out Blizzard and I think they pushed the release of WoW.

The balance issues you spoke about are relevant, but it's nothing that really effects game play or has a serioes effect on pvp. Blizzard has also always listened to people's gripes, but they play the game too and I'm sure they realize the problems. Maybe it's just harder to fix some of the bugs than you think? I wouldn't know...

Paladins are supposed to be hard to kill, but it's true they are overpowered atm. It's still not that hard to kill them, just go toe to toe with them, when they put thier shields up use bandages and potions. Dead pally. Rogues and Priests arent the only classes that don't get mounts at 40. Hunters Rogues and Warlocks are useless endgame? That's just rediculous and untrue. And you don;t HAVE to run instances for weeks to get the keys for onyxia. My tip for you: get in a decent guild.

What do you mean they arent good at saying whats coming and what they are trying to patch? You mean they dont have an entire page (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdevelopment.html;jsessionid=D0FCC254AD4102A79 9E86C780EB42BA1.app01) on what they are developing or a whole other page (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/patch-05-02-04.html;jsessionid=D0FCC254AD4102A799E86C780EB42BA 1.app01) on what they are patching and fixing? Huh... that's news to me.

And, though I can;t really speak our for Blizzard, but I don't think they were too happy releasing the game when they did.. before WoW came out Vivendi (the company who originally released EQ) bought out Blizzard and I think they pushed the release of WoW.

Actually, Vivendi has owned Blizzard for quite a long time, to my understanding. I suppose it's not directly Blizzard's fault, but viv's for putting a deadline on them. ;/


Paladins are supposed to be hard to kill, but it's true they are overpowered atm. It's still not that hard to kill them, just go toe to toe with them, when they put thier shields up use bandages and potions. Dead pally.

Yeah, in 1v1, great. Try using that strategy in group?



Rogues and Priests arent the only classes that don't get mounts at 40.

No, but every class but them gets some special perk at 40.

Paladin: Plate Armor, free mount (or 90 gold, depending on how you look at it)
Hunter: Mail, Aspect of the Pack (sorta)
Shaman: Mail
Warrior: Plate
Mage: Portals
Warlock: Mount
Druid: Dire Bear Form, Feline Grace (latter being pretty crappy)

now let's look at rogue and priest..
Rogue: Safe Fall... woop-de-doo. Seriously, it's pretty shitty.
Priest: absolutley nothing.


Hunters Rogues and Warlocks are useless endgame? That's just rediculous and untrue. And you don;t HAVE to run instances for weeks to get the keys for onyxia. My tip for you: get in a decent guild.

Hunter less so, but only for pulling. Rogue and Warlock? Why take a single-target dps class when a second mage (AoE dps) will always be more useful?
You have to do at least 40 instance runs for the keys, considering 1 at most can get it...


What do you mean they arent good at saying whats coming and what they are trying to patch? You mean they dont have an entire page (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdevelopment.html;jsessionid=D0FCC254AD4102A79 9E86C780EB42BA1.app01) on what they are developing or a whole other page (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/patch-05-02-04.html;jsessionid=D0FCC254AD4102A799E86C780EB42BA 1.app01) on what they are patching and fixing? Huh... that's news to me.

Were you not around when, during downtime, they stealth nerfed a priest-ability, the lowest played class, into uselessness? Their argument being "well priests used mind soothe to get directly to the princess and kill her easily, skipping intended content." Because, obviously, Priests just did this all the time, and a Druid or Rogue being able to do the same thing is fine, but giving Priests the ability to do that is something that is such a problem that they have to ruin an ability instead of moving a mob or two around?

Or how about when they nerfed Paladins and called it a "bug" in the spell that caused it to heal more than intended?