So i have completed the game many times and i just get more puzzled.

Is cloud a clone or not, i know about him and zak that he made his own illusion but...... arrr help!

And im sorry if there is already a thread like this!

P.s sorry for not noting, **spoilers**

yeah! somebody set it straight cos im clueless too, i completed it a couple days ago too and still i dont what the story is!!! is he a clone from zak or sephiroth!?

Ah, you've noticed one of the critical flaws that make FFVII such a dismal failure. There is no answer aside from mere speculation on the part of rabid fans who cannot accept that their favorite story was badly written.

Ah, you've noticed one of the critical flaws that make FFVII such a dismal failure. There is no answer aside from mere speculation on the part of rabid fans who cannot accept that their favorite story was badly written.

Hmmm well at least its a answer man but i dont think it was badly written.

Ah, you've noticed one of the critical flaws that make FFVII such a dismal failure. There is no answer aside from mere speculation on the part of rabid fans who cannot accept that their favorite story was badly written.

I was actually thinking the same thing. I read the first post and started to type a reply, when I realized, that I wasn't 100% sure. ;)

I don't think he was a clone. He was a normal kid, and went off to soldier, (described in the lifestream with Tifa). He enever actually made it into soldier, and they injected him with Jenova cells, and put him in a tank next to Zack. He definitely wasn't Zack's clone. Hojo always called Cloud, "Failure," because he failed as a follower to Sephiroth. Remember the guys in the black capes? He was supposed to be like them, (I think), but he was messed up, and failed as his experiment. No, he wasn't a clone of Sephiroth, nor Zack.

ok, but the cloud we know was supposed to be based on the cloud Tifa knows!

and prak what the hell have you got against ff7, maybe im biased because it was the first ff i played but still

Read the debate threads in this section. My reasons (and those of many others) for not liking the game are very clearly outlined.

Anyway where was i?

Um i think he was a clone of sephrioth made by Hojo its just there was such a person called cloud its just that the one you play is not the same one tifa knows, its just the same memorrys, if that makes sence :confused:

It does mention that there was a cloud before the whole buisness of the clone thing, although i do not know what it's got to do with cloud

and prak what the hell have you got against ff7, maybe im biased because it was the first ff i played but still
The key phrase is...

"maybe im biased because it was the first ff i played"

I liked and still do like FFVII , but I'm afraid there's no denying what Prak said. I think (this is only speculation, hence the word "think") that Square's writers were trying to have an ending where you draw your own conclusions, but they did it badly. In stead of leaving miniscule holes for you to fill in, they leave you with contradictions in the plot. First off, did the Nibelheim incident occur five or seven years ago? Cloud always says five, and Tifa always says seven. Not at one point is it explained why there is this mixup or who is right. Secondly, Cloud clearly states that he was not created, but then why does Hojo never contradict him when he says he was just a failed experiment? Maybe the Sephiroth clones were originally regular people who were infused with Mako and injected with Jenova cells, but there really isn't enough evidence to support this. Finally, how were there descendents of Red XIII at the end? Wasn't he the last of his race?

Well, that's much more than my two cents, but I have the Flu and nothing better to do. (It rhymes!)

I never thought Cloud was a clone, he was just injected with Jenova cells. Cloud being a failed experiment was that probably. It didn't have any good effect on him. I think anyway. Hojo captured Cloud and Zack and other people in Nibelheim to create clones, so they weren't clones themselves.

The five and seven years thing I'm not sure about either. I always thought Cloud left Nibelheim seven years ago, and that's the last Tifa saw of him. Then two years later the Nibelheim incident happened, but Tifa never saw him, only Zack.

As for Red XIII, I remember Bugenhagan said something about him finding someone, can't remember exactly at what point in the game but he did say it. Also note that er, Red XIII could possibly have children with a "two-legged" being, as they put it at the beginning in Shinra HQ.

You typed with uncertainty about Cloud, and that's what Prak's point was. You can speculate on the loose ends of FFVII, but there really isn't enough for you to come up with a good conclusion.

The five and seven years thing couldn't really work that way, because Cloud was so ashamed that he wasn't in Soldier that he refused to let Tifa identify him. There's no way he would have been there two years earlier because she was waiting to see if Cloud would come when they arrived. See, it's all going in circles now. It really just doesn't make sense.

Bugenhagen's line is "Perhaps you may find your life's mate. You never know." My point was actually that it leaves it totally unexplained, and I wanted to know what happened since Red XIII is my favorite character.

Red XIII is a major mystery. The only clues are what Bugenhagan said and the fact that Hojo planned to breed him with Aeris. As for Cloud, I believe that he isn't a clone. He was at Nibelheim all along during the incident, which was just before Sephiroth went wacko and before clones were being created. He and Zack were captured just by Hojo and Shinra troops just after the incident (most likely, there's the letter to Tifa and, we also see them escape from the reactor). Then there's that memory of Tifa's mum dying and the other stuff that only the real Cloud could've known.

Members of SOLDIER aren't just exposed to Mako but also injected with Jenova cells, and in Cloud's case it wasn't good since he was weak. I'm guessing that's what Hojo means by failed experiment.

The memory of Cloud making that promise was seven years ago. It's what Tifa said at the beginning of the game. The five years ago would be the incident, but Cloud never revealed himself to her.

But anyway, things really aren't clear cut. Some assumptions do have to be made. Since the game was released early, there are just too many loose ends.

Released early?!?! Is this true? If so, it would explain a great deal.

yes he is a sephiroth clone.

yes he is a sephiroth clone.

That's great. Could you tell us all why?

no cloud aint a clone. he was part of the group with sephrioth when they visisted nibelheim but when cloud tells his story of the incident that isnt him. its really zack. but cloud was one of the dudes in the shinra uniforms. cloud was the one that killed sephrioth and the sephrioth u fight at the end was a clone of sephrioth (i think)

So i have completed the game many times and i just get more puzzled.

Is cloud a clone or not, i know about him and zak that he made his own illusion but...... arrr help!

And im sorry if there is already a thread like this!

P.s sorry for not noting, **spoilers**

Cloud is not a clone he's a normal human, hojo just made up that clone story 'cause he is evil

Ok as I see it the whole Cloud/Nibelheim thing goes like this.

Seven Years before FF7, Cloud leaves Nibelheim to Join Soldier.
Two years later he returns, but only as a ShinRa Guard, he fails to get into Soldier, to hide his shame, he hides his face behind his mask.
During his return to Nibelheim, Cloud witnesses Sephiroth destroy his hometown, wound Tifa and best Zack in a fight.
Cloud grabs Zack's sword and stabs Sephiroth. He then returns to take care of Tifa, finally removing his mask. Sephiroth, not dead, attempts to leave the reactor with Jenovas head. Zack orders Cloud to finish the job. Cloud charges at Sephiroth, but this time the General Stabs Cloud. Cloud manages to pull the sword out of his chest and throw Seph to his 'demise' in the Mako pit below.

Hojo then Finds Zack and Cloud, but Tifa has been Rescued by Zangan. Hojo experiments on both Cloud and Zack, then Leaves the two in the Tanks for Five years.

Shortly before the start of FF7, Zack breaks out of the Tank, frees Cloud and escapes the mansion with him. I expect Cloud is comatose because unlike Zach, he failed as a member of Soldier.

Upon arriving at Midgar, Zack and Cloud ( still comatose), encounter a Shinra patrol, Zack is killed in the encounter and Cloud is left for dead.

This much i'm pretty much 100% on, there are reports in Nibelhiem about the incident 5 years ago, and there's even a note from Zangan. Also the Memory scene and the hidden fmv, bear this out.

As for whether or not Cloud is a clone. Well I don't think so, all the clones were mindless creatures, Cloud could think for himself, although he was also easily manipulated by Sephiroth.

I think Cloud was given Sephiroth's strength and combat ability ( otherwise how could Cloud face him and Win?) but when Cloud pieced together his true past he realised that he wasn't a clone of Sephiroth, just an enhanced human

cloud wasnt given sephrioths strength or nutin. cloud just gets stronger from his journey throughout the game. how come cloud has mako eyes if he wasnt in soldier. and how could cloud stab sephrioth the first time if he was that weak and couldnt be in soldier. i thought sephrioth never bled or cried before. cloud should be in soldier if he is able to attack sephrioth and "have sephrioths strength"

Cloud was injected with Jenova cells. He was a bit of an unusual case be cause he failed in Soldier, so he was a weak one who was injected with Jenova cells. My guess would be that he was also irradiated with Mako as part of the process. At any rate, the Jenova cells had strange effects on Cloud, because they increased his power but also took over his mind to an extent, as you can see in the story. I still think it leaves a lot of holes, though.

The fact that this argument can even take place proves that I'm right.

Yes, cloud was a sephiroth clone with Jenova cells injected into him.
He was the only successful experiment.

The fact that this argument can even take place proves that I'm right.

I suppose. There are lots of things that aren't clear. Major plot lines are left hidden and you have to search them out. The letter to Tifa, the Zack and Cloud flashback, the videos at Icicle Inn and Lucrecia's cave are all major plot lines but they're hidden. Even they don't explain everything clearly, you just have to make a few assumptions.

cloud wasnt given sephrioths strength or nutin. cloud just gets stronger from his journey throughout the game. how come cloud has mako eyes if he wasnt in soldier. and how could cloud stab sephrioth the first time if he was that weak and couldnt be in soldier. i thought sephrioth never bled or cried before. cloud should be in soldier if he is able to attack sephrioth and "have sephrioths strength"

Cloud fails Soldier, that is quite clearly stated when Cloud rediscovers his memories, He has Mako eyes because of the incident at Nibelhiem, also Cloud is able to stab Sephiroth because he catches him unawares.

Cloud only gains "Sephiroth's Strength" after the Nibelheim incident , and he doesn't have a chance at becoming a Soldier in the 5 year gap because he is comatose in the bottom of the ShinRa Mansion, after Hojo experimented on him and Zack.

But what i dont get is that when cloud meats sephrioth, sephrioth doen't know who cloud is but wasn't it cloud who killed sephrioth in the first place?

Also why dosen't cloud look like sephrioth if he's his clone i think zack is clouds clone or visa vers because they look exactly the same.

p.s im so proud that this thread went so far :)

But what i dont get is that when cloud meats sephrioth, sephrioth doen't know who cloud is but wasn't it cloud who killed sephrioth in the first place?

Cloud was in that uniform all that time, and he stabbed Sephiroth from behind.


Also why dosen't cloud look like sephrioth if he's his clone i think zack is clouds clone or visa vers because they look exactly the same.

None are clones. The only thing similar between Zack and Cloud would be their hairstyles.

any way, at jenovas renionion(sp) cloud goes all mental and can fly but how come u dont get that power after when u get him back

No, Cloud isn't a Sephiroth clone. He was just a normal person (apart from the whole being infused with Mako to show that he was a member of Soldier). However, he and Zack were experimented on by Hojo and had Jenova cells injected into them. They managed to escape, but were ambushed by Shinra soldiers. Cloud got away, but it is presumed that Zack was killed. However, Cloud had been injured by the soldiers and his injuries, plus the jenova cells in him, caused him to lose his memory. He slowly regained his memory, but it was all confused and jumbled up, which is why he believes he did some of the things which were actually done by Zack.

thanks so much for that. ive been so confused

the game wouldve been better if he was actually in SOLDIER i think

No, Cloud isn't a Sephiroth clone. He was just a normal person (apart from the whole being infused with Mako to show that he was a member of Soldier). However, he and Zack were experimented on by Hojo and had Jenova cells injected into them. They managed to escape, but were ambushed by Shinra soldiers. Cloud got away, but it is presumed that Zack was killed. However, Cloud had been injured by the soldiers and his injuries, plus the jenova cells in him, caused him to lose his memory. He slowly regained his memory, but it was all confused and jumbled up, which is why he believes he did some of the things which were actually done by Zack.

You say that like it's some kind of fact, rather than the questionable interpretation that it really is. :(

ok, i dind't bother readin the other posts. but heres what i know:
zack and cloud were both real people. when they all went to nibelheim sephiroth randomly turns evil. so while he was at the mako reator it was really zack with sephiroth, not cloud. so sephiroth killed zack, and then clous was only a mere shinra soldier. so he came running in, and killed sephiroth, later i think cloud died, or hojo just wanted to try something. so he injected cloud with mako.....i guess from the events in the game, he could be a clone trying to fight his way out, or he could just be....psyco......but wasn't he also injectedwith JENOVA cells? that should make him a clone.

What's clear:<ul><li>Clones are built piece by piece from Jenova cells.</li><li>The Cloud and Zack in Nibelheim (5 years ago, pre-incident) were real humans. Sephiroth was still sane and alive at this time.</li><li>Zack and Cloud were captured by Hojo and Shinra soldiers immediately after the incident.</li><li>After 5 years (or close), Cloud and Zack escape from the Nibelheim basement.</li><li>They reach a hill top near Midgar. Zack gets shot by Shinra soldiers, Cloud is left for dead. Cloud however, survives and picks up Zacks sword.</li></ul>
What's not clear:<ul><li>After the real Zack and Cloud were captured, they could have been killed. The Cloud and Zack we see escape from the Nibelheim mansion could be clones.</li></ul>
I'm sure there was some evidence which pointed to Zack and Cloud being experimented on, so they weren't clones. Right now I can't remember it though. Maybe someone can.

What's clear:<ul><li>Clones are built piece by piece from Jenova cells.</li><li>The Cloud and Zack in Nibelheim (5 years ago, pre-incident) were real humans. Sephiroth was still sane and alive at this time.</li><li>Zack and Cloud were captured by Hojo and Shinra soldiers immediately after the incident.</li><li>After 5 years (or close), Cloud and Zack escape from the Nibelheim basement.</li><li>They reach a hill top near Midgar. Zack gets shot by Shinra soldiers, Cloud is left for dead. Cloud however, survives and picks up Zacks sword.</li></ul>
What's not clear:<ul><li>After the real Zack and Cloud were captured, they could have been killed. The Cloud and Zack we see escape from the Nibelheim mansion could be clones.</li></ul>
I'm sure there was some evidence which pointed to Zack and Cloud being experimented on, so they weren't clones. Right now I can't remember it though. Maybe someone can.


There was evidence that they were experimented on. If you go back to the basement of the Shinra Mansion, in Disk 3, you get a flashback in which it shows Zack and Cloud being experimented on.

no cloud isnt a clone. he thinks he is a former member of soldier. zack was the soldier member not cloud. cloud thinks that he was in soldier but he is thinking of zack.

There was evidence that they were experimented on. If you go back to the basement of the Shinra Mansion, in Disk 3, you get a flashback in which it shows Zack and Cloud being experimented on.

You see them in tanks, and they escape when they're given food. You would assume, they were being experimented on.

A lot more evidence points towards the fact that they're not clones. Assumptions have to made of course, but only tiny ones. It's not like having the whole thing blurted out to will make it interesting.

Also what is it with Vincent maybee some how the expriments on zack and clout are connected to him?


so sephiroth killed zack

seph did not kill zack, he got shot (i think) some where when cloud was escaping with zack. Although im not shure about this. When the insedent with cloud and seph and zack took place at nebil.... was this before or after when zack and cloud where in tanks?

So i have completed the game many times and i just get more puzzled.

Is cloud a clone or not, i know about him and zak that he made his own illusion but...... arrr help!

And im sorry if there is already a thread like this!

P.s sorry for not noting, **spoilers**
no cloud is not a clone but in tactics it's a possibility that cloud was a clone but no one knows if that aeris is the real aeris

!?!?! who ever thought about aeris being fake? Who cares for that matter!