The story of Cerberus is so far interesting.I have to work with Cerberus but they seem to care most about humans and not the welfare of other alien races.

Human colonies are disappearing and the reapers are back

I was a little disappointed that there were no vehicle exploration bits so far, and scanning the planet is boring.I miss also ammo with different effect like cryo and Fire ammo radioactive ammo or armor piercing ammo.The lack of these kind of feels like something is missing.

It's a good thing we gave Kelly because we would never know when we have to talk to people for loyalty, which is another new thing:Aside from romance, we have something called loyalty in this game.It seems the description mentions talking in Google and doing specific quests and certain answers to get loyalty.I like this approach, except that loyalty seems hard to get and you would think actions that lead to renegade or paragon faction would tie in, but it doesn't.

I like that instead of getting charisma or intimidation to get more options just opt for either getting renegade or paragon to get more options.I also like the ship and some of the new stuff, like engineering department, bar and even buying pets for your room.I dislike the lack of weapon variety and nothing to upgrade until time passes.It feels like unless you do a couple of missions, you will soon run out of stuff to buy.I also do like the idea of having different options for effects at the end of each skill like Cerberus leader or Cerberus commando.One gives health the other buffs attack power and other stuff.I feel like because of the lack of weapons and maybe lack of options the difficulty is slightly higher and higher loading times too.

I will give more info when I get further.

Actually, money is rather hard to come by in sufficient quantities. There are lots of upgrades to buy, and even if you prioritize weapons, biotic amps etc and leave medi gel capcity and bypass hacking mods etc for later, it can be hard to afford all the stuff you need later on (there are 3 hub worlds, each with several shops full of increasingly outrageously priced gear). I never buy any of the other stuff (personal armor upgrades, model ship, pets and all that crap), and I still struggle to afford everything I need.

The story of the game is very silly (its just an alien abduction story where the evil aliens are pursued by Space James Bond and his Dirty Dozen of Assembled Avengers). But as long as you take it for what it is (a ripping yarn adventure story), then its a good enougn time. The game is at its best when its not being too serious, and is focusing on action and pulpy escapades against various scum criminals. As a continuation of Mass Effect 1, it fails completely as its riddled with all kinds of jarring retcon, and the things that are possible in ME2 (in terms of science, and what can be done with it), are completely different from ME1. (Stuff like EDI, the quirky ship AI and Shepard coming back from the dead as a super cyborg soldier etc etc). It just doesn't feel like the same series at all. Its still good, but I cannot view as a contination of ME1, I have to treat it as a completely seperate entity if I want to enjoy it.

Shepard's reaction (or lack of it) for example to the events of the start of the game are absurd. The character was in the Alliance for 10 years forging a career for himself. Friends, family (in the Spacer origing anyway), a place in the world, This is a person who has a life and roots. Then he 'dies', misses 2 years and instead of going back and reclaiming his life, rejoining the Alliance and the Spectre title he worked so hard to earn, he accepts TIM's offer to join an organization who despite ME2's retcon tinged claims were not 'just' untrustworthy or shady, they were sadistic and criminal in the very worst way in ME1. This despite TIM showing him no proof whatsoever of the Reapers involvement. A comic book character might turn his back on his whole life, and eveything he has worked for so easily, but a real person would never do that. Not without some serious soul searching. Yet the whole 'Yeah I died!' thing is treated as a joke and is basically never mentioned again in a serious way ever again! Its a naked way by the Bioware of just hitting the reset button on what Shepard is and what kind of character they want him to be, and it throws any kind of continuity and credibility straight out the window, meaning I simply could not care about this game as a continuation of ME1.

The RPG mechanics are toned right down, with everyone only having combat related skills now, and as you said custom modded ammo and armor are no longer included (and there is no inventory of any kind!) This means that the game is basically just a 3D shooter with some talky bits, rather than what could be honestly termed a proper RPG. That doesn't mean it isn't any good at this (its very good indeed in fact), but call a spade a spade and all that.

As I've said many times, I think of this game the same way I think of RE4. A sensational game, a once in a generation kind of a game. But a rubbish sequel that has nothing to do with the series it purports to be from, and which sets the series on a very different heading to that which I hoped it would go. None of which means I think either game (RE4 or ME2) are bad games. As I say I think they are both incredible games - I just wish they weren't pretending to be part of series that they bear no relevance to.

Actually I'm doing my best to reject Cerberus.Werent they the same company involved in that experiment from the rachni on a planet if I recall? I honestly don't remember now who Cerberus was.

They were originally billed as a rogue Alliance special ops branch that went rogue and starting conducting illegal tests on husks, Rachni, Thresher Maws etc, as well as gruesome experiments on human test subjects, and examing the effects of releasing weaponized bioweapons into popilated (and unpopilated) worlds. They were supposedly funded by elements within the Alliance military. When various people try to blow the whistle on them, they are kidnapped and killed, or led into ambushes etc. In ME1, they are utterly ruthless killers trying to perfect genetics and research into supersoldiers etc. They function in a similar manner to Umbrella Inc from Resident Evil or Weyland-Yutani from Aliens.

By ME2, they are simply billed as a pro human private organisation, considered by the Alliance and Council to be terrorists, because they ignore borders and protocol, doing whatever the TIM pleases. The dialogue surrounding their activities in ME1 is retconned and rephrased to suggest they were never any more than this. The main conversation about it with Miranda is actually missing unless you played through ME1, and even then it completely rewrites the facts on what happened in those situations and leaves out many of the most damning episodes (such as their slaughter of a team of Alliance Marines, and the kidnap and murder of an Alliance Admiral). Its never mentioned, even though Shepard was there and knows what they did.

I did the same as you and tried to resist them, but take it from me - its a waste of time. If you restrict yourself to only doing the main missions (i,e not doing side missions for Cerberus Command), then you'll completely screw yourself for money, resources and upgrades. The fact is, during all but 2 missions (Rescue Cerberus Operative side mission and potentially the final mission), you always hand over all your information, artifacts etc to Cerberus at the end of the mission. No choice about whether to keep it from them (considering many of the missions end with Cerberus obtaining extremely valuable Prothean technology, Reaper technology, Geth Technology etc, and/or result in people e-mailing you to say that because of your actions, they now approve of Cerberus and will support them in future etc).

The game basically insists that for the duration of this game, you leave what you know about Cerberus aside, pretend that their new retconned version is correct and that your Shepard considers this a deal with the devil that nevertheless must be done. Its really the only way to make any sense of the narrative, and to have any fun. The more you fight this imposed connection with Cerberus, the less fun you'll have (because the game simply won't accept it, and any attempt to talk back to TIM for example, always ends in him saying 'No, you're wrong and I'm right - so there!')

Just go with it - the easiest way I found to headcanon it was that the mission stands no real chance if the crew sense you don't trust them and don't want them there. So whatever your feelings, you need to make it seem like you're on board with all this. Its taking a huge liberty (because my Paragon Shepard would frankly never have worked for Cerberus under any circumstances), but the game's narrative and setup is what it is. Either get on board, or don't play the game basically! It sucks, but there it is.

So much for playing assasins creed 1 on PS3 and mass effect 2.I went upstairs while my wire was connected to my blue tooth controller and my controller wouldn't load.I either need a new cable a new controller or a new PS3.Im very pissed off since the controller won't turn on or charge.I had no problems before but it simply won't turn on.It worked fine yesterday and the day before.

Ah, the joys of technology. I always keep a spare controller handy for all my consoles, past and present. You never know when they're just going to decide not to work.

Though frankly, your controller may have heard you suggesting that you'd be playing Assassin's Creed 1 and broke itself in protest. That game sucks.

Hey guess what vrykolas? The charger I was given from the he store was a piece of crap and broke in one day.The one I had previously works fine so now I can play assasins creed 1 YAY

Oh. Happy Day.

Or you could you know, play a good game instead? I mean come on man - you should be playing Dark Souls! For PS3 RPG fans, its practically our job to do that! :D

I was playing this game months ago but after the first ME ended abruptly (IMO), I decided to stop for some time. I don't know how many hours ME 2 has but the last thing I remember was recruiting Tali. Is this far or close to the end?

---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------


Or you could you know, play a good game instead? I mean come on man - you should be playing Dark Souls! :D

He's right, dude. DS is greatness. I'm on a platinum mission on it!

Recruiting Tali is about halfway through the main story campaign. You can recruit her after Horizon, which only unlocks after you've completed the first 4 Dossier missions. She actually misses quite a lot, and that's a shame (especially as they do the exact same thing to her in ME3!)

That pisses me off.I started a new game on me1 just to load a previous save game on me2 on a new game to see what the difference in romance it is with that person.

The romances are handled terribly in Mass Effect. By the Dlc of ME2 'Lair of the Shadow Broker' and all of ME3, it was obvious that Bioware consider Liara to be the one true romance choice. If you chose her, then you're in luck. If your didn't, then you could expect endless prodding by the games to try and change your mind on this, and accept the 'proper; romance choice.

Seriously, the other romance choices barely get any content or development compared to the Liara one. The game blatantly still considers her to be Shepard;s closest friend, no matter what you say or do. And most of her scenes in ME3 feel exactly like intimate romantic scenes, even if you aren't in a relationship with her. You can try other romances, but you'll get no satisfactory content from it, I'm telling you now. The writers love Liara and they INSIST that both you and Shepard do so as well.

As to ME1 continuity, its mostly just cosmetic stuff here and there. But Bioware can (and do) overrules your choices at times and just go with what they want to do. So If you choose Anderson to be on the Council, he eventually gives up his spot to Udina etc. If you don't recruit Legion or get him killed, the game just puts in another talking Geth that looks just like him. If you destroy the Genophage cure, it still gets cured in ME3 anyway (unless you have made a series of very specific choices, you are basically forced to cure the Krogran, or get so penalized for it that nobody would ever choose not to do it - there is a way not to cure them and come out alright, but its predicated on choices that I suspect only single digit percentages of players have made).

Besides that, its again clear that the writers *want* you to cure the Krogran, because they like them. And they don't really care about the Citadel and Council races (all of them together do hardly anything in either ME2 or ME3). The writers clearly love the Krogran, the Geth, the Quarians and the Batarians. And they don't really give a shit about any of the others (especially the ancilliary races like Volus, Elcor and Hanar etc, who are almost completely absent after ME1).

You know what made me angry at the beginning of me2? Liara shows up but talizora didn't.I want to romance talizora not liara.I like liara but I want tali as my girlfriend.

I am not anti liara, I am just pro choice of who I want to be with.When I played dragon age origins I didn't just date Morrigan or Leliana, I dated both.Actually I even had a save where my archer guy dated zevrand and they made love just to see what would happen to my character.

This is the modern age - its not really a big deal to have played a same sex romance, you know? No need to add 'even' to the sentence lol

But yeah, I completely hear what you're saying. The only thing I can say is that whilst you may not be anti-liara now, you probably will be by the end of ME3! The games really go overboard in pushing her romance. The others barely get anything, and some of them are actively sabotaged by Bioware to make sure they can't end well. The only thing I would add is that Tali is one of the fan favorites, so she does have more content than many of the newer characters get (and you can recruit her in ME3, unlike all the other ME2 characters except Garrus).

This is probably as good a time to say this as any by the way - be very careful how you level up your characters. There is a level cap, and your squad members will not have enough points to max all their powers. This is important because the Loyalty power for your squad members is usually (but not always) their best power. The vast majority of your team will benefit *hugely* if you max out their loyalty power. But it takes quite a long time to unlock the loyalty missions (which must be completed to unlock the powers).

If you spend too many points early on, you won't have enough left to max out those powers, even if you reach the level cap. And since the lvl 4 version of every power makes that power expotentially better, it is a *really* bad idea to leave yourself in this situation. As a rule of thumb, Jacob, Garrus, Legion, Samara, Thane, Tali and Grunt *need* to max their loyalty powers to be as useful as you'd want them to be. Mentally set aside 9 squad points and don't spend them until their loyalty powers unlock. Its important.

It's done for the fun of it.Also I saw a video of female Shepard trying to romance mordin, and it's really funny.Also mordin giving romantic advice on Garrus hahaha oh man.

Well, each to their own but for me the romances in all Bioware games are written so badly that they can't really be termed 'fun'. Bioware are simply awful at this, but romance options generate inordinate interest from fans, so they are forced to keep doing it (they've said themselves many times that their writers would rather not have to do them).

It never feels like you're actually in a relationship with these characters. Its just about 2 (if that) flirtations, a bit of Wham, Bam, Thank you Mam before the final mission and that's that.

I understand what you mean vrykolas.It takes the whole game to get into the sex part with your romance being either in me1:Liara the human girl or talizora.I feel though in me1 you grow to like the characters though, especially tali and Garrus.Even utnot wren is likeable.To me for some reason:Maybe it's because I never spent time talking to her, but I didn't grow to like liara that much.I mean I ended up in a relationship with her accidentally in me1 and was kind of angry cause I wanted to go for tali, but oh well.I think dao has some of the most likeable characters.Alistair, Morrigan, Leliana, the older Mage, and especially friggin zevran.Zevran is hilarious he hits on the older Mage woman and does it just as something he desires because he can't have.

Dragon Age Origins is not as 'well' written by and large in terms of actual quality of dialogue, but I feel like there is more attention paid to fleshing out the characters and giving them the chance to really become your friend or enemy. The banter is much more prevalent and better in Dragon Age too, so you get a better grasp of how the party members feel about each other. Mass Effect feels a bit 'stiff' in this regard. All the characters seem to have the same pattern of conversations:

1) Welcome the Normandy, crewmember! So... tell me a little about yourself.
Team member: Eh, I don't really want to get friendly. Clear off.

2) We've been on a few missions. How about you tell me a little about yourself? Come on... please?
Team member: Sigh. Alright, this is who I am and I have a problem. But its none of your business, so sod off.

3) Team member: Hey... you remember I told you to sod off earlier? Well... don't, because I need your help after all.
Shepard: Sure thing (winks at camera).

4) Team Member: Thanks for that. You're... alright after all.
Shepard: Oh right. Woah! Your hand's cold! Save it for later...

Its simple and it works well enough I guess, but the Dragon age games seem to offer more variety and make the move from strangers to friends more natural and believable. But in all Bioware games, there is a recurring problem that the Love Interest characters frequently have little else to say or do, if you don't intend to romance them. Dragon Age fixes this to a certain degree with Alistair and Morrigan as they vital to the main story, but Zevran and Leliana are really just there to be love interest candidates. There simply isn't very much to them, beyond the usual 'dark episode' which many characters have, where their dark and troubled past arises etc etc. But mostly, if you don't intend to romance them, they don't have very much to say or do in the main story. It feels like they could vanish and the story wouldn't even notice.

Same in Mass Effect, only more so. Characters like Jacob and Miranda *seem* like they are going to be important, yet end up doing basically nothing and have little to say unless you want to romance them. Garrus has the infamous calibrations thing, where if you don't romance him, he basically says nothing for the whole of ME2! Tali also has very little dialogue in ME2 if you don't romance her.

It was as you say, particularly bad with liara in ME1. She is supposed to be an archeologist and *the* expert on the Protheans. Yet you can't speak to her about any of that in any of the games! All she wants to talk about is her problems with her mother, Asari mating habits and how she's attracted to you. Bioware are also really bad at the whole 'let them down gently' thing. Often you either have to accept a flirtation by a crew member (which can lock you into a romance you weren't intending to have, and which becomes rather hard to get out of) or else shoot them down in flames with a 'No chance, freak!' insult that is completely uncalled for, or some other completely tactless and blunt refusal.

I liked the characters more in dao though.I found Morrigan to be more interesting so far in dao than in me1.To me that banter you talk about between characters is important as the characters express their personality and it comes off more than in me1 as you said.I think though it is probable that it's not totally realistic but at least better than me1.I think giving presents to each person to get them to love you also isn't realistic either.If I went to your house kept giving you gifts that you always wanted or liked, you wouldn't automatically be my friend,nit just doesn't work that way.Problem is:The time frame in games and making it seem like time passes enough to give you an idea of a relationship.I know it's corny but i think of the princess in illusion of Gaia in the raft scene where they are together for months and will gets scurvy.For some reason I was willing to accept that as natural as they were together for months and you can see days weeks and months pass and they grew to become closer friends due to being together.They didn't automatically love each other either, which bothers me in some games.

By the way vrykolas:I encountered a bug in mass effect 1.I was on noveria doing the cure quest and the Asari scientist attacked me but my character was frozen in place and I wasn't getting hurt, but the enemies were.Eventually enemies were still firing at me and all 3 characters were frozen and I had to reload and when I reloaded the scientis and the cure were gone, because I had the cure on me but the Asari was dead and over with, allowing me to skip the encounter.Also as soon as the encounter started the chat box options were frozen and I was unable to select anything because the Asari was attacking me.Have you ever heard of a bug like this?


I still find Morrigan to be one of the more interesting love interests because of her personality.You know what you are in for and having a pretty pessimistic bitch for a girlfriend, and you have to match her personality to actually get with her.

Leliana actually is a little bland and boring to me, because she talks about God and being spiritual and comes off as kind of corny.I kind of understand how it's not totally natural characters, but def better than me1, as you get an image that not all characters would get along at all times like in mass effect.Every character save for the bald human man who is prejudiced against aliens get along, and that isn't realistic.If you get a group of people from different cultures and different professions, you are bound to have cultures clash against each other, especially if they are alien cultures like in mass effect.I mean:Asari? What about the krogans? There is some negativity towards Krogan and quarians.Heck, tali mentions how people stereotype quarians for being beggars and thieves and keep her waiting to check out the quarians.

Yes, I've had similar bugs during that mission. Sometimes, the enemies just vanish completely and the door is sealed permnantly so I can't get out! I just reload it until it eventually works.

Morrigan is okay, but her status as a creator's pet with Plot Armor and 'I'm always right about everything, because the writers won't let me not be' does become rather irritating over time. Leliana works well enough for me as a love interest, but I agree that her ditzy lovey 'I see the light!' doveyness can be wearing. Them trying to shoehorn in a dark and troubled past just feels completely out of place though. Not every character needs to be a secret Ninja Master or reincarnated Samurai Warlord from space.

I agree that time passing is essential to making a romance feel realistic. The games get this kind of thing wrong in slightly different ways. In Dragon Age, your character can find out lots more about the party members than in ME, but it gives you too many deeply personal questions to ask them straight away. Many of the characters point out that your questions go beyond simple curiosity, as blurting out 'Tell me everything about your childhood' to people you have just met borders on being morbidly nosy. ME meanwhile goes too far the other way, with only a small number of conversations, and no approval system. So even if you insult and antagonize a squad member, they still eventually approach you for help and trust you implicitly. Plus you never really get to know all that much about them. You know a few details, but it still feels like with certain characters (Garrus, Tali etc) you'd surely know more about them than you do. Plus Shepard is such a blank slate of a character, that along with the dialogue wheel restrictions, you never really gets a chance to forge your own narrative for hom to tell to others.

I feel like ME1's characters are not as chummy as you say though. Its just that the game is so sparse with banter (its basically only in the elevators, and there's even less of it in ME2), that you don't have many opportunities to hear what the others think of each other. But its clear that many of the humans on the ship don't trust the aliens very much (Ashley bluntly tells you as much saying they shouldn't be allowed such free roaming access, Pressly voices his concerns and has complained to anyone who will listen about it. Joker also is generally uncomfortable with many of the more warlike alien races - he doesn't like the Turians, Krogan, Batarians, Quarians or Geth, even if they later become allies. He relaxes this somewhat around individual people from those races, but he still has a somewhat testy relationship with Garrus (they jab each other with offensive jokes that have a definate edge to them and Joker muses in ME2 that whilst he thought Garrus was too stiff before, he likes the new more violent Garrus even less), Mordin and any of the Krogan. He openly distrusts Legion, mocking him, suggesting you kill him and is very happy if the Geth are all killed off in ME3, still blaming them for the death of Kaiden or Ashley.

Tali and Garuus meanwhile do not trust Wrex very much (and they trust his brother Wreav even less). They voice concern over him on Virmire, and support the decision to kill him if you or Ashley deem it necessary. Garrus is candid that he doesn't have much love for the Krogan in general, because whilst everyone considers them victims, he knows them to be a warlike, troublemaking species who are always up to no good. He is also clear that he does not and never will trust the Geth, seeing them as murdering robots who have done nothing but spread terror and bloodshed. Tali is obviously of the same opinion on Geth, although she does come to consider Legion a friend. It doesn't change how she feels about the Geth as a race though. Characters like Kaiden and Liara are more professional and even handed. They tend to try and co-operate, although both aren't exactly wild about races like the Krogan, Geth and Batarians, they are at least willing to give them a chance.

In both Dragon Age and Mass Effect, your guys are generally possessed of enough self control to not actively start attacking squad mates. But old grudges and animosities between races and factions are not easily dismissed. In ME1, the ship is very obviously being run as a military operation with soldiers saluting as you head through doors etc, and your human officers know that whatever their personal feelings, they have to act like professionals. Tali is just happy to be along for the ride, Garrus is mostly fine with things because its a great opportunity to prove to C-Sec that their policies are wrong. Liara is concerned about what she has heard of humanity and its ways, but the need to confront her mother and know the truth about the protheans overcomes these issues. ME2's squad is much more loosely disciplined, and problems do arise from time to time,

But even when not actively fighting, you'll see your characters engaging in passive aggressive substitutes for war. Garrus and Joker riding each other with near to the knuckle 'jokes', Vega and Garrus engaging in locker room style contests of machismo, Dorian and Cullen from DA:I playing a board game that is blatantly just a way of working through the 'Tevinter Mage! Chantry goon Templar!' feelings that exisit between these peoples, Morrigan and Alistair are another obvious example. They have to find an outlet for it somewhere.

That's what I loved about dao how you could watch characters who hate each other bicker.Its real amusing when Morrigan and Alistair argue.

Also exo Presley hates aliens.He complains is it a good idea to have aliens aboard a human aliance ship?

Also I can understand not liking Batarians or those furry guys who breed like rats in me2.I can even understand not liking all the krogans.In me1 even utnot wren was saying forget those guys they are blindly following Saren.

Well, a lot of those Krogan were being bred at the facility, and Sovereign's Indoctrination signal is brainwashing everyone who stays at that base. Mind control is a very cheap and annoying storytelling device that Bioware keep using (Blood Magic is another example), and I really wish they'd stop. Character motivation is meaningless if everyone is just getting mind controlled all the time.

The Batarians I would argue aren't as simple a case as they seem. Slavery is an extremely loaded word that the modern audience instantly equates with sexual deviance etc. Yet slavery as a caste system has been a part of most of the world's biggest civilizations at one point or another (including America, let's not forget). To the modern, civilized man, Slavery is rightfully considered a shameful attack on human dignity and freedom. But we live in relatively comfortable environments, in economically stable and militarily secure countries. We can afford to allow the people their freedom, and in fact would be very hard pressed to deny such freedoms (although several countries in the East of Europe and Asia are still extremely authoritarian and oppress their people).

The point is that the Batarians live in one of the least hospitable, least resource rich areas of space. Just surviving at all requires immense fortitude and that all citizens be compelled to stay and contribute however they are directed. With Citadel space dominated by the Council, whose member races control commerce and security with a vice like grip, both through endless beauracracy and the threat of Turian reprisals, other races basically have to accept what they are given, when the Council chooses to give it. But some races don't stand for that - the Krogan who were sterlized, the humans who have gone to war with the Turians and maintain generally tense relations with the Citadel races and the Batarians who were incensed when the Council offered systems marked for the Batarians to the humans as a peace offering. Thus the Batarians quir Council Space completely.

The Batarians way of life is alien to most. Its a hard life, but they argue that slavery is both necessary to maintain the workforce that living in their environment requires, and central to their faith because it ensures all members of society know their place and are doing their part. Talk of personal freedoms and increased safety precautions for workers and more humane treatment of workers and soldiers undergoing harsh training etc infuriates the Batarians. Because its applying standards of behaviour from much more benign climates and resource rich planets and systems. Its easy to preach about liberal values, when your people all have enough to eat, when you have shelter from the elements, when you have enough troops and arms to defend yourself etc.

Many of their actions are inexcusable, but that is more a symptom of how badly relations have broken down between them and the other races, where the Hegemony considers it acceptable if rogue elements conduct terrorist attacks to keep the other races guessing at their motives and strength. The Batarians have legitmate grievances with most of the other races, and there is fault on all sides. The Council could certainly have been more flexible in dealing with them and trying to respect their cultural values. If the Batarians could spread to more hospitable areas, then its entirely likely that they would over time start to reign in their more harsh behaviour, as it would no longer be necessary. As EDI points out in ME3, the crisis has seen many Batarians forced to uproot to the Citadel and away from the Hegemony (the Batarian government), they are perfectly nice and ordinary people.

Every time I had encountered batarians in me2 so far they were unpleasant bunch.

Also what I do like about dragon age origins is the whole thing of temptation to corruption thing of the circle of magi.A demon in the fade tries to temp you with sex power or money, and we see first hand what happens if you give in and summon demons

Eh, I consider that section rather weak. I really don't like the depiction of demons in Dragon Age - they have such hokey dialogue and sound like villains from Professional Wrestling. The main villain in that section is exactly the same, chewing the scenery with camp dialogue. I find everything to do with demons and the Fade to be disappointing in all the Dragon Age games. I just can't take any of the demons seriously, with their silly over the top dialogue, and the Desire Demon's vamping it up like they're from some dodgy 70's exploitation horror B movie.

And you won't find many agreeable Batarians in ME2. They hate humans, and Shepard is human. There is too much bad blood between the races already, and if Shepard has either the War Hero or Ruthless Origins, then he is considered a blood enemy of the Batarians (either for fighting them off in Skyllian Blitz or for the massacre at Torfen where Batarian civilians were caught in the crossfire and mercilessly slaughtered by Major Kyle, Shepard and their forces).

Guess we are missing batarian team mate for mass effect 3.We have had others but not any batarians.

The batarians are basically wiped out before ME3 even starts. Its a classic case of Bioware starting a story thread and then dropping it completely, because they either couldn't be bothered, or the feedback on it was poor etc. The whole point of The Arrival Dlc for ME2 was to force Shepard to commit an atrocity against the batarians in order to stop the Reapers. An act which was so severe that Admiral Hackett ordered Shepard to turn himself in and face trial once he was done with the Collectors. Hackett supports Shepard's move as desperate but necessary, but the action is so outrageous that there will be war if Shepard isn't held accountable.

They built this trial up and up and up as this huge deal... And then dropped it from ME3, and wiped out the Batarians so it would no longer matter. And its basically never mentioned again. Bioware's continuity strikes again...

I saw you can actually play as a batarian in mass effect 3 since its online.

Only in the multiplayer, which is a seperate thing. In the single player, you're still stuck playing as Shepard. The batarians aren't completely wiped out, but they are reduced to a fraction of their number, and lose all their territory and organized government etc.

I won't be playing me2 any time soon since I don't feel like replaying me1 since my file just corrupted.I was about to beat the game so forget it.

Seriously, you're better off not moving a save game over - it really doesn't count for jack all. They basically rebooted the series with ME2 into something different, so ME1 often feels like they barely acknowledge its existence at all. Your choices from the first game really don't matter at all. I consider ME1 the best ME game and well worth playing, and I think ME2 is an excellent game also, but as a sequel ME2 sucks big time,

Just play ME2 wuth that downloadable intro comic thing. It covers the big decisions, and that's all you need. ME2 works best as a standalone game IMO. Its continuity is a farce from ME1 and its riddled with retcon. And as for ME3, that game sucks IMO and isn't worth playing anyway.

Vrykolas I just started all over in me2 with the dlc comic thingy for choices.

Good man. Its the best way to play that game - this way you keep the big choices from ME1, without having to gnash your teeth at all the ways it fails to uphold teh continuity. Played as a standalone game, ME2 is a great experience.

I disliked the comic for ME2 and ME3... call me a traditionalist, but I prefer to play the trilogy from start to finish

Yeah, but his game glitched near the end of ME1. I love ME1, but having to play it all again when I'd nearly finished? Forget that.

And the comic does its job. It gives the truth to the lie that your choices matter. It covers the only ones which actually matter. ME2's continuity sucks - the rercons are too jarring for me to ever consider it a sequel to my canon playthrough of ME1. If you do the Paragon ending to ME1, then ME2 makes absolutely no sense. It fails every test of being a sequel, completely abdicating any responsibility to do what the ending of ME1 promised you would be doing (i.e making ready for the Reapers and unifying everyone, because everyone has now seen that the Reapers are real, but that they can be beaten). Instead, it has messing around against enemies that are only on 3 levels in the whole game, and aren't in the last game at all!

And ME2 is basically a reboot, so even your character which you carry over is changed. You stop being Space James Bond and become Space Superman. From human to super cyborg without batting an eyelash. From a world where technology has definite limits and evolution to TIM, EDI and Mordin coming up with magic space science to solve any problem. All they needed was Geordie La Forge's VISOR and they'd have been all set.. Shepard was a person, not a comic book character - he would not just give up 10 years of service in the Alliance, the life and career he had built there, everyone he knew there, so easily and with not even a moment to consider it!

So its best just to treat ME2 as a clean slate, Play ME1 by all means, but whilst I like ME2 very much, I have never enjoyed it when I have gone straight over to playing after ME1. Because the retcons and the rebooted nature of it is too obvious. I can only play ME2 after a substantial amount of time has passed since playing ME1, when I basically just take it down off the shelf and think 'Yeah, why not - haven't played this in ages'. Because then I can enjoy it on its own merits as a great game, and not as the bad sequel that it unfortunately is.

It has nothing to do with the quality of the first 2 games. Both were fantastic and amongst the very best of the last gen. But as a series, they fail utterly to provide a coherent narrative, because the 2nd game is so obviously written with a new tone, by a new lead writer with a new agenda, and it just nips and tucks at the edges to make it all fit and hopes nobody asks for a mirror.

Something that really bothers me in me2:

At the start the council doesn't believe your story about the reapers yet I recall at the end of me1 I saved their ass, and they still treat me like shit.They are a lot nicer because of saving them but still nasty to me.Wtf I sacrificed countless alliance ships to save them.Even the reporter asks is it a little much for them to ask because you sacrificed countless alliance ships? I'm also annoyed that everyone in the council automatically assumes I am allied with Cerberus.I am trying to help the good guys and I don't trust Cerberus.I know for sure it was Cerberus who had some experiments with creatures.Exogeni isn't good either.

That's the exact problem I had. It undermined the whole premise of the game for me, because it completely retconned the ending of ME1, where the Council admitted to both Shepard and Anderson's faces that they believed the Reapers were real, and that they were ready to help. Given the amount of trouble it took to get there, you'd think that Shepard would have asked for them to put that in writing, or recorded the conversation. Working with Cerberus is like putting on a Nazi SS or ISIS uniform, and then doing charity work for Save the Children. You may do some good, but you're giving free publicity to an atrocious organization in the process!

Its a circular argument that's used, and it drives me up the wall. They won't publicy support you because you're working with Cerberus. But you're only working with Cerberus because they won't support you! Its ridiculous. All Shepard would have to do is say 'Right, lock down the Normandy in dock, impound it and have the crew brought on board for questioning. Rotate an Alliance crew on there, and we'll force TIM to tell us what he knows or lose his whole investment in this.' There is simply no reason to just go along with what TIM is saying (and he doesn't even prove any kind of connection of the Collectors to the Reapers at all until Horizon).

Obviously the game cannot account for all these things and has to focus you along a specific path. But its the way it does it, and the flimsy retcon way it uses. The attack on the Normandy is great, but the whole Shepard comes back from the dead (!) as a super cyborg soldier is beyond daft. If they weren't going to respect your choices in ME1, they should have simply not allowed you to return to the Citadel. TIM should have shown you definite proof of Reaper involvement, said 'Look, either you help us out and I give you what you need, or I strand you on the nearest desolate planet with a few sandwiches and a flash of tea to be going on with'. Your work with Cerberus should have been forced on you, because that's what the game is doing anyway. Instead of retconning everything from ME1 to try and make it work.

Whenever you meet people from ME1, like Anderson, the Council, Garrus, Tali, Ashley/Kaiden - they all express their incredulity at what you are doing. They all wonder why you don't just go back to the Alliance, or at least use old contacts to get your own operation together. Anything other than working with the Space Gestapo. And as someone who played as a Paragon in ME1, I was always jumping up and down screaming at the screen 'THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING!!!'

I got another complaint so far:Seems like aside from the handfuls of missions, I am stumbling around trying to scan planets to hopefully find a mission since I ran out of weapons to upgrade.I have no use of mining since I have no upgrade research available at the moment.

Weapon upgrades are usually found on Hub Worlds (Omega, Citadel, Ilium, Tuchanka) at weapons dealers, or on main missions and Loyalty missions. True side missions (i,e planet scan N7 missions) rarely have anything like that. Those usually have a few crates of resources, some money etc.

The key thing to understand is that your party will only truly get stronger by obtaining upgrades (levelling up does help, but equipment upgrades are where the real power is). So you need to consistently be doing main missions (i.e Dossiers, TIM's compulsory missions that he gives you now and then etc) and the loyalty missions. Because that's where the upgrades and new weapons are.

You should however stop doing the main story missions after the Disabled Collector Vessel (or you'll probably lock yourself in to the bad ending, or worse ending at any rate). Loyalty missions however you should do as soon as they show up. Your party members are mostly fighting at half strength until you do those.

I just created a female Shepard to hit on Garrus heh.I wanted to see what the romance is like with Garrus.

Brand new update:

So far I'm liking the quests.I also could have sworn there is more variety in planet types than in me1.Not all planets now are rocky types with dust where you wander around and the new ship is nice.

The dlc quests so far are really good as well.

I did Kasumi quest
Zaaeed quest
Quest for jack
Haven't done shadow broker quest yet.

Some of the others I've done are good too.

I did find the quest for mordin a little repetitive but it is interesting because you are curing a virus, and learn about the batarian relation with humans.You also get to meet the vorcha.

There are actually more weapons in mass effect 2 than in me1.

For instance:

Rocket launcher
Grenade launcher
Machine gun
Pistol
Shotgun
Rifle
Flame thrower

I got the flamethrower in zaaeed quest, and it's fun to use.You also do earn upgrades which is nice, since I think it's super hard to upgrade biotic related items in me1.I do like the system and the weapon upgrades, and I Like the loyalty thing gaining powers and being able to use it if you have a loyal companion with you.I like the branches for powers since it makes it not so boring and linear like mas effect 1.

Just got to the part of saving Kaidan alenko.I got a laser beam weapon those disgusting radroach race known as the collectors use.These guys are super tough with their laser beams and their force fields.Eww I'm roasting roach people.

Well, I can't stand the levelling up in this game myself. They got rid of all the RPG elements and just gave everyone combat powers. People (including Shepard) are now good at everything the plot currently needs them to be good at, and sometimes bizarrely lose those skills in later scenarios and conversations where they claim not to be any good at things they have previously been shown to do!

As for the variety, well yes of course. People moan and complain about EA all the time, but this is why Bioware merged with them. ME2 had a much bigger budget than ME1 (Dragon Age Origins was stuck in development hell too, until EA threw a ton of money at it and said 'Get it finished by this date - no excuses'. Its true that EA have brought much woe to the fans and Bioware have been going to the dogs for years now, but in the early days of the merger, it was the best of both worlds. Bioware at the height of their creative powers, being bankrolled by a company with extremely deep pockets to help them fulfill their ambition.

It didn't last.

I understand vrykolas but you still have a leveling system.In my opinion the leveling system is still better than mass effect one so far due to not maxing out everything super fast and having everyone the same, cause that's just boring.Granted I'm not even close to the end yet, but it does have a lot of promise.Its also nice that planets actually look different from each other.I do still miss the rover runs.

Also you have two branching paths at the end for skills, allowing you to differentiate for every character.Say one character is a master in overload take one path for longer reach overloads and another for stronger.

There is still a leveling system but it's much slower now and the game wants to take its time.

I think one of the most concerning thing is how on rails this game is.At the moment, I end up rushing through missions to find upgrades for weapons and armor, since I get so few, and money since I can't buy anything for a while.I end up being purposefully broke because there is so little cash drop compared to me1.At the same time:The game doesn't want you to rush through missions because you miss out on iridium, or possible new weapons or upgrades.

Hilarious thing:Hitting on mordin is soo so funny.So worth being let down just because real funny.

I still say that RPGs should never dumb down on stats. If a character wants to be good at something, he should have to pay for that privilege by means of stat points or some kind of perks system. Otherwise you are simply great at everything whenever the story needs you to be (Shepard has endless cutscenes in ME2 and ME3 which are basically 'Shepard is the greatest person ever at everything'). The only thing you aren't great at is combat, which you actually do have to pay points for. Which is hilarious, considering its supposed to be the one thing your people definately *are* supposed to be good at!

And the game really scores an own goal with the loyalty skils. They are essential to making the team members as good as they need to be, but they are locked for nearly half the game! And since the level cap is pretty draconian, its easy to leave yourself unable to max the team's best skills. Which means holding back points when you level up, which is never very fun as the obvious impulse is to spend them. The levelling system being slower is not a good thing - it holds your characters back for no good reason, and potentially shafts them later. Its an awful system IMO that seems to be deliberately trying to catch the player out.

Lucky for me I saved up to max out a lot of skills.I got zaaeed maxed on his flame grenades, kasumi on her stun grenades mordin on neuroshock and grunt on his barrier thingy which is a loyalty skill.I do think the game holding me back purposefully is not such a great thing, and not having much in terms of quests, but it might be because the quests do seem better.All of the companion quests are really good.As for the skills:I do wish I could access the loyalty skills earlier.Its a good thing people warned me.

To be honest though, Zaeed, Kasumi and Mordin are amongst the few characters whose loyalty powers aren't all that great! Kasumi and Zaeed are both Dlc characters and were included after feedback from the fans (i.e that they hated having the best skills locked for so long). Both Flashbang and Incendiary Grenade are good skills, but the AI struggles to get the best use out of them. Kasumi is better off focusing on her Shadow Strike and Class Skill (to better her cooldown times). Zaeed is better off focusing on Disruptor ammo and his Class Skill (because his stat increases to health and weapon damage are better than basically anyone else in the party). The loyalty power is best for most of the other characters (I'm not wild about Miranda and Mordin's powers, but everyone else has excellent loyalty powers).

The biggest problem I have with the loyalty quests is that they have to be completed to unlock the character's skill, which means those skills are not available during the mission itself. Each character's loyalty mission is their one big moment to shine, when the quest is written specifically around them. It sucks that when their big moment comes, they still don't have their best available and so are a drag on the squad's combat prowess in their own mission! Characters like Grunt, Jacob, Tali, Garrus, Legion, Thane etc are all substantially weaker without their loyalty powers. Garrus is simply inferior to Zaeed in basically every way until he gets his ammo power (and even then, he's only about as good).

My last big issue with the levelling up system is that having ammo as a skill is just silly. How much extra training can it possibly take to load a different kind of bullet into your gun? Are we seriously saying that trained assassins like Thane never use Disruptor ammo, even though its easily the best choice for a sniper rifle? Does nobody aboard the Normandy know how to make or purchase Armor piercing rounds except Garrus? And why won't he share them (unless you buy the final power that gives the squad such ammo, but that takes lots of points and doesn't increase his personal damage output at all).

Its all a symptom of them scrapping the weapon and armor mods from ME1, and completely removing the Inventory system. Yes, the Inventory system from ME1 needed some work, but removing it entirely and making everything into passive buffs?

I do miss equippable ammo and the game isn't perfect.The first thing I noticed is now shields take forever to break down without ammo for piercing armor and shields.

I also began the shadowbroker quest yesterday, and boy did liara change.I actually like liara more now than I did in the past.

Another thing that bothers me in me2:The characters hardly say anything now and instead of talking after every mission, it feels like a few missions pass and some characters literally say nothing of interest, like Garrus.Garrus hardly says anything except for his quest and a few lines about the quest.If I try to talk to them busy talk later talk to much talk later.

I think honestly mass effect 1 had better character dialogue.

The thing with the gameplay is that it awkwardly straddles RPG and shooter. It plays like a 3D shooter, it removes almost all the RPG elements from the levelling up, and yet stats do matter greatly. Until you level your class skill up, find the better weapons and purchase the higher level upgrades, it takes ages to kill some kinds of enemies. Because no matter how good at 3D shooters you are, your weapons are doing crap damage, and your health and shields are too low to take much punishment.

During the Collector Vessel mission, you will be given a option to basically receive a free upgrade from 3 choices. These change depending on what class you are, but they are usually a choice between a special weapon appropriate to your class that can't be gotten anywhere else (and can only be used by Shepard, though some are replicas of Squad mates unique weapons). Or you have the option to receive training in a weapon you currently can't use. I cannot stress highly enough that you should take the special weapon on offer (or one of them anyway), because they are all excellent weapons and are generally much better than any of the weapons you find in the game normally.

ME1 certainly had way more character banter and even in smaller missions on the Citadel, your characters would frequently be chipping in with their thoughts. But in ME2, there is basically no banter at all (there are *very* occasional lines, but they are so infrequent that they only serve to remind you how little of this there has been). And in anything other than the main or loyalty missions, your characters never really have anything to say for themselves. They might say something like 'Hmm, this seems worth a look' or some other boilerplate non statement, But that's it really.

On the ship, its as you say - it often feels like the characters have very little to say. Over time, most of them have just about enough to justify their inclusion (Kasumi and Zaeed have to make do with even less though, being last minute DLC additions). Garrus and Tali suffer from being recurring characters who could have been treated in different ways by Shepard in ME1. So in typical fashion, Bioware dodges the issues by having them say very little, only giving them much dialogue if you choose to romance them. Otherwise, they hardly say anything.

And the issue with Liara is something that really annoys me. 100 years is the blink of an eye for the Asari. Liara was always embarassed about 'only' being 100 years old and afraid such a short period of time would lead to people dismissing her theories. Yet in the space of 2 years, she has gone from socially maladjusted loner to well connected, super espionage agent with a web of contacts and skills ranging from detective work, to inflitratiion etc etc and has become cold blooded and single mindedly ruthless?!

Its blatant retcon and Creator's Pet fanwank of the worst kind IMO. This is not what the character was, and changing it to be Shepard's super girlfriend (as the game seems to insist you be together, even if you expliticly say you aren't), is just irritating beyond belief. Its also disappointing how easily the Broker is found and defeated, given how much he was bigged up in ME1. All to set up a premise for ME3, which that game basically ditches and does nothing with... Great. Not.

Personally I thought the changes made to liara made no sense of her going from super agent.She was never an agent but acts as if she was an Asari commando trained professionally, which I call bullshit on.

On the other hand: Despite this, the gameplay is quite good in many areas, and I see improvements.There is certainly more variety in areas.There was actually a car chase scene in this game which is neat, and some levels are very creatively designed.The shadow broker is interesting.

Oh yeah I don't like how I can't go into areas after finishing the quest, because that sucks.Its like:I got the password to go into the vip section and can't go anymore.What if I wanted to dance with that Asari I danced with there?Its also super easy to miss out on weapons I didn't find.

As for the weapon I chose:I chose the sniper rifle, since my version of Shepard is a engineer and has no long range gun.

I have a feeling you might hate mass effect 3 considering I heard it's even more streamlined.

I'm getting the impression that both games have little replayability due to the fact that there is little to explore in mass effect 2 aside from scanning every planet which is boring.

Actually Mass Effect 3 is less streamlined. You can choose freely what weapons you want to take (and from a much larger selection than ME2's tiny selection of guns), and the guns all have different stats that make them good in different ways. You can mod your weapons again, and the amount of guns you take weighs you down, slowing your cooldown times. So you have to plan it out to get a good balance of decent weapons and acceptable cooldowns. My problems with ME3 are not gameplay related (the levelling up system is better too, giving you a choice of powers at every stage near enough, not just the final stage). You also level up much faster, and heavy weapons are pick up and carry weapons with limited ammo, which means you don't have to commit to one for a whole mission.

Gameplay wise, ME3 is pretty good. Its still missing the RPG elements (all the skills are still combat related, and ammo is still a skill which is just daft IMO), but the game is more or less a polished and refined version of ME2's system. I'm not wild about some of Shepard's animations, but then I just prefer ME2's look in general. People insist ME3 looks better, but not to me it doesn't.

My problems with ME3 are all story related, and the ability to mark your Shepard out as your own is severely compromised, as the game has lots and lots of cutscenes with Shepard taking actions and speaking with no imput from you (or with only a range of unacceptable options sometimes). The third game has a very mawkish, sentimental streak about it, with Shepard and the crew suddenly angsting over the terrible cost of war and a lot of other hand wringing blather. Its painful to watch, it really is.

With regard to you choosing a sniper rifle... you mean you chose sniper training? I confess I haven't ever played as an Engineer, so I don't know what options you have there. Vanguards get Assault Rifle Training, Sniper Rifle Training or Shepard gets a version of Grunt's Claymore heavy shotgun. Soldiers get a choice between Revenant Heavy Assault Rifle, Widow Anti Tank Sniper Rifle or Claymore Heavy Shotgun. They're sensational weapons and much bettet than the crap weapons that the rest of the game gives you. Like the Viper Sniper Rifle - what a piece of crap that gun is!

Whoa, this thread really went far! I better just scroll down or it'll spoil everything for me XD

I felt (just like some reviewers) that the game doesn't have a real plot. Is it true that the whole thing is about recruiting people from different places in order to justify a "To be continued..." for ME 3? I don't mean ME 2 is bad because of it, so far I enjoyed, is a step above the first ME in many levels but... am I just covering ground after ground without character development or what?

I have a geth sniper rifle now and geth shield power, but I have to recruit every character on the ship again because the stupid collectors kidnapped Kelly the engineer guy who is Scottish the cook and also. Probably chakwa.

Hey there Franz :D

Its basically telling a 'Jonny Action Hero and his Dirty Dozen vs the Evil Space Aliens from Space' ripping yarn. The collectors story is just an old fashioned action romp, with you and your band of desperados riding forth to smash those Sectoid wannabes for truth, justice and the Ass Kicking way. In terms of fulfilling its duties as the second part of an ongoing series, it completely abdicates all of that, and in so doing leaves ME3 with an impossible task in trying to bring it all together.

Because everyone instantly reverts to the 'No, we don't believe in the Reapers' line, so none of the races prepare themselves *at all* for the Reaper invasion in ME3, which by all rights should mean game over right at the start of the third game IMO. In ME2, Shepard is basically just messing about - the Collectors are really not much of a threat, and their masterplan is very silly indeed when its finally revealed. Nevertheless, they are decent enough 'Evil Alien Scum' and the (very) few levels they are on are some of the best in the whole game.

Basically, this is a really great game. But its a terrible sequel, a hopeless prequel and you really can't call it an RPG at all most of the time. Its a 3D shooter with some talking. But again and I stress this - it is a *fantastic* game in its own rights and on its own merits. Just don't take it too seriously as part of an ongoing trilogy, because they completely and utterly messed that part up.

Also, in terms of character development, this game sees Shepard lose any real semblance of character. He's a completely blank slate for you to fill in (whereas in the first and third games, they do try to establish some boundaries on that - i.e that Shepard is in his heart an Alliance Marine through and through, that whilst he may take extreme decisions, he is not an evil or power hungry man etc etc). ME2 doesn't really bother with any of that, and just lets you say and do whatever you feel like (without the restrictions of the dialogue wheel of course). It does lead to some truly bizarre situations, especially with Jennifer Hale's female shepard. Generally, she's by far the better performer of the 2, but her interpretation of the Renegade dialogue lines is just crazy. She suddenly turns into some pistol packing, six shootin', rooting tootin, Calamity Jane Cowgirl. I half expected to see her Shepard riding a horse into the final mission, shooting from the hip, chewing baccy and lassoing Collectors...


NG - if you don't start the final mission *immediately* after the crew are abducted, then most of the Normandy's NPCs will die automatically on the final mission. Your only options are to go straight to the final mission and finish the game immediately (in which case you arrive in time to save them), or continue building up your team and doing missions (in which case they will die and there is nothing you can do about it - Kelly, the cook Rupert, Gabby the Engineer and maybe some others. I think Doc Chakwas survives, but I'm not 100% sure).

Loyalty is indeed a rare bird

I just beat the game so here is the pros and cons:

Each ability has at the end a branch to offer something different
New characters along with old ones
New guns with more variety
Better optimization for items(No scrolling to sell guns and items)
Really good dlc quests and regular quests.
Good world design.Mass effect one worlds all looked alike
Paragon system is better
Upgrading guns is cool and so is upgrading the ship

Cons:

You can still more or less just fill up all abilities and end up with the same thing, leaving it a one time play only
Scanning planets is boring and tedious

The lack of rover is disappointing

The inability to leave your hover ship when flying around is disappointing

Lack of all ammo variety(Shredder ammo,Polonium Ammo, etc etc)

All ammo going into abilities, leading to missing abilities and being severely underpowered and getting destroyed early on

The lack of dialogue between you and your team is very disappointing.Most of the time, all they have to say, is I'm sorry but I'm busy talk later.

The story contradicts itself and chooses for you if you don't use the comic to purposefully save the citadel.On top of that all the bad choices are automatically chosen for you.