As we mature, some of us notice tid bits of the new ff games with very immature characters.

Some might be still excited, but how many here would say this fits their description?

I feel as I get older, these new games enthrall me less if they have a childish story.

This happens too with other modern jrpgs, like tales of vesperia.I was only slightly more interested in the world ends with you.

I don't get it, what are you trying to say mana ray?

It depends on the game. I despised FF XII's story but loved the music. Same with FF VIII. I didn't like FF XIII or it's music. I haven't played FF X, although now that I have a ps3 I might ask for the remastered version for Christmas. FF IV, Vi, and IX are my favourites, and while I don't have a ps4 and very curious about FF XV. As for FF XI, and FF XIV, online games really aren't for me. I've tried both and while they both were beautiful, especially the music, I just could not get into the mindset of playing with millions of people, or have the the time commitment necessary for online play.

By the way I loved Tales of Vesperia, hated Tales of Graces F, and have yet to play Xilla.

I think the other big thing is that when we get older we just don't have as much time to commit to games as we did when we were younger, which may play into it. I don't have time to play 4-6 hour prologues before the game opens up into something good, unless I know it is going to be kick ass.

Cheers,

Firestars004

I played 7-10.

Played a little of 11, but not really since the then-friend I played with only cared about farming.
He took the fun out of it. I only played my character when we did fights/questing.
And then quit like after 3 months.

The on PS2, I emulated on ePSxe but could never manage to save the savefile so always have to start from the beginning.
I don't downlaod anyone's savefile because they always use cheats and have everything. Or its just for final boss with cheats enabled.
Or it's a barebones speedrun save with virtually no items or anything.
12, I think.
I don't remember any of the story. Just more princes and kings. A judge? I didn't connect with it at all.
It was just fun to run through the game.

I don't know about any of the newest games after 12.
I don't play console any more. And I don't buy anything new on Steam when I know it can either be GOTY for dirt cheap or hacked.

I see the graphics keep getting upgraded over the years.
I see the characters appeal more to modern day teenagers. Always wearing a took.

I really want to watch all the FMVs to the newest games.
Youtube should have a robust collection of 4K videos. Their 1080p videos have actual 1080p details and bitrates compared to actual 1080p videos uploaded.

No more want to express their opinion?

Just opened a thread about it Thread 198726. I think I never liked FF X that much as it's been more than... 5 years the game is sitting on my shelf and I don't feel like playing it. Definitely would give another try on FF IV to FF IX as I have many good memories about them but where to find time for games that don't give platinums back XD?

Um 7-10 is too few games to get a real view of the series as a whole.Then again:I'm guilty of not playing ffXI FFXII FFX-2 FFXIII-2 Lightning returns and FFXIV and ffXV.

7-x is 3 games and there are 6 other games before that.

Yes, but those games do represent the age when Final Fantasy was at its most relevant to western audiences. I think its fair to assume that a great many people will base their experiences of the series on those games. The eras are so different that they barely count as being the same series at all. The early games are of a kind that many modern gamers simply cannot acclimatize to now. To a certain extent, that's probably true of 7-9 as well. And the later games from 10 onwards see them jump from non voiced to fully voiced etc.

The issue is that they are all crammed and squeezed into the same series, when really the games have very little in common (or at least only as much in common as most JRPGs have with each other). Its a series in name only, gathered under that banner because the FF name means money. Its pointless to try and say is a good FF game, because how do you measure a game's 'Final Fantasyness'? The only thing you can judge them on is whether or not you like each individual game. That's the only thing that matters.

It matters because ff4 ff5 ff6 and ff7 to me are the golden age of ff series whilst ff8 was merely decent and ff9 to me was the last really good ff.Ffx was ok had flaws.

Even ff7 I would say it's good but not best.I personally think 9 beats it in art style and world design of fantasy and music.Heck I think 9 and 4 beat 6 in most music.

There is no doubt 7 is important in bringing the series to mainstream but it also was a model for bad habits.I think it's a good idea also to know where a series came from how it started and where it's gone.I played wizardry and ultima 1 and both of those games are before my time.Games don't age like milk.Some get more apparent that they age badly like ff7 due to the blocky graphics and all that but we make remakes to fix up what mistakes it had and try to get people interested.

Some people are watching movies that are 40 or 50 years old or even 60 just because they can, like me.Because we are interested in the history of movies and some are real good.Doesnt mean we abandon all new products

I think it's important to try and give a game a chance before dismissing it.

I'm trying out mass effect 2 and liking it although I do miss some stuff from mass effect 1 and elemental ammo.First time I tried the demo I really didn't like the game.

I tried out kotor(knights of the old republic and got interested in the 5 minutes I could play before it crashed.) I am still trying to fix that and my pc is busted and I want to go back to baldurs gate 1&2

I played Diablo 3 demo and the game and really liked it.I liked the first game too

Nostalgia gamer, you've arguably beaten your argument into the ground by yourself: objectively, it doesn't matter because to you those FF chapters are representative of the series' golden age, to a different generation of gamers the same might very well be true in regards to chapters like Ⅹ, Ⅺ, or Ⅻ. Even, later, you have no problems admitting that you personally think Ⅸ beats Ⅶ in art style+world design, that doesn't make it universally true. I know a lot of folks that think the perfect balance between fantasy/reality is found within Ⅶ, just because of stuff like Lifestream/Materia.

About the original question you have in the title: duh, nice detective-work, captain obvious; nowadays' old Final Fantasy (but you're free to put any other important franchise there, the same is true) fans don't matter that much, any more. Game-development is a business, they're after the big money and by now, the tastes of folks like you and me, which have played the earlier Final Fantasy, do not matter. Their target are today's teenagers, it has always been like that.

EDIT:
In a way, most Final Fantasy plots could be seen as childish, we just let nostalgia-lenses filter the crap for us.

In a way, most Final Fantasy plots could be seen as childish, we just let nostalgia-lenses filter the crap for us.

Plot-wise, old FF games are no better than "new gen" FF ones. As much as I have good memories of FF XII, the story is terrible. And FF XIII? A soap opera out of a modern sci-fi fairy tale-ish convoluted plot. FF VII was about what? Cloud's internal strife or let's avenge Aeris by killing Sephiroth? And the witches in FF VIII? Laughable. Anyway, my point was made. You don't need good story to enjoy an RPG like FF (but XIII falls short all around IMO so...)

Plot-wise, old FF games are no better than "new gen" FF ones. As much as I have good memories of FF XII, the story is terrible. And FF XIII? A soap opera out of a modern sci-fi fairy tale-ish convoluted plot. FF VII was about what? Cloud's internal strife or let's avenge Aeris by killing Sephiroth? And the witches in FF VIII? Laughable. Anyway, my point was made. You don't need good story to enjoy an RPG like FF (but XIII falls short all around IMO so...)
Ⅶ - Emo brooding around and a guy who goes clusterfuck-psycho because, apparently, he didn't grasp the basics of sex ed.+genetics battle it out because of a chick, and the ever-present threat to the planet's existence. [First Final Fantasy played by me, so it will always hold a special place, regardless of its shortcomings]

Ⅷ - Sadly, I've a soft spot for ladies with tattoos, so Ultimecia/Artemisia was the saving grace of that game, for me, besides Triple Triad. But yeah, way stupidest story ever. I've come to embrace the whole "Squall is dead theory", that makes the idiocy a lot more bearable.

Ⅹ-2 - A guy died something like 1.000 years ago couldn't let go of his grief over his ultimate inability to "dick" the girl he loved, so he sticks around and threatens to end life on all of Spira. It could be argued that the main heroine, Yuna, suffers from the same grief conveniently gender-swapped for her: she sets out on a quest with the vain hope of finally getting a taste of Tidus's dick, that we kissed bye-bye in the previous game. Though Ⅹ-2 has come to be my FF, for its gameplay/light-hearted mood, I'm not joking that much about this game's plot. Seriously, things are like that in a nutshell.

It's not true though.You do see some improvements.Take ff2 and 3 on nes were major improvements over 1 and 6 improved the formula of 4 and 5 and later ones had some improvements.Its just that I found 6 with woolseyisms to be more westernized and appealed to me and some others more.

Leon many gamers still think 7 was part of the era where square still made good games, even if there is disagreement and bickering over which was the best ff game, and many loved 9.Its obvious it's important to the fans themselves.If you feel the loss of exploration is no big deal or markets and linear leveling system, then I cannot agree with you.

For all the bashing I did towards x and 7 in some ways.x at least had shops and allowed you to explore a little more.7 had more exploration and Mini games to keep you interested and a materia system with multi combinations that are very in depth.Am I beating myself into the ground? I think not.

Ⅹ allowed you to explore? My, some exploration that game provides: you're pretty much stuck on "plot-rails" until you beat 90-95% of the game, even oldest titles like Ⅶ/Ⅷ/Ⅸ broke the pace a little with sub-quests/mini-games scattered around. Ⅶ had shops, world map, sub-quests you unknowingly trigger right from the start of the game, thanks to stuff like the battles you take part in and the answers you give to party members like Tifa and Barret, just to name a few.

I never said the loss of exploration or linear levelling is no big deal, God knows Ⅹ-2 is my favourite because I'm pretty much free to visit most areas right from the start, and even risk to get my ass kicked by strong enemies for it. What I was trying to imply with my earlier post, since you seem to suck at reading comprehension, is that developers often go and change the formula of a franchise (either by a big, or a small margin), in order to appeal to the "current gamers", players like me and you don't matter that much to them, any more, we are no longer their biggest source of income.
Money holds power.

Ⅶ [First Final Fantasy played by me, so it will always hold a special place, regardless of its shortcomings]

VII was my first FF as well, dearly beloved RPG, and although I don't think it's "the best FF eva" (do I have a best FF on my list?), I don't do like many who tend to praise VI as the greatest. I remember a sequence in FF X-2 where Rikku massages Leblanc and I thought: is this lesbian porn or what? NOT THE FF I KNOW!! Hated the game.

Leon you get open land much earlier than 13 and you can go back to previous maps.im not saying it's totally open but better than XIII.you also had a extra dungeon to explore and a new aeon to get yojimbo at least as an offshoot.

FFXIII was a straight line.also the defense of changing to appeal to mainstream is what got them in trouble in the first place

Then again:I'm guilty of not playing ffXI FFXII FFX-2 FFXIII-2 Lightning returns

You're not losing that much from FF XIII trilogy. Could've been a main game with 2 not-so-impressive (and fan service DLCs) expansions. FF XII I cannot recommend enough. Story is flawed but the gambit system and tons of side quests outnumber it. FF X-2 for me is crap.

I haven't played any of the "XIII" games, nor XII, so I won't speak of those. I have played every other Final Fantasy, including XI and XIV… So, in regards to X, I happen to know for a fact that you don't get much in the way of sub-quests/mini-games, until you can travel freely with Cid's ship. Reading that you get to explore in that game when there are previous Final Fantasy still "linked" to the first PlayStation that give it a run for its DVD made me laugh. It's way too easy to dismiss X-2, but look beneath its idiotic surface and you get a definitely okay RPG, maybe even a good one; I can't help thinking that its ATB-system is probably the best that ever graced the entire saga.


the defense of changing to appeal to mainstream is what got them in trouble in the first place
I didn't mean for that to be taken as some kind of defense, I was merely stating what has likely happened: the same "curse" (as we might call it) that befell Final Fantasy has also affected other beloved game-franchises, like TEKKEN and Resident Evil: presumably, the developers wanted the big bucks, so they tried to package something that would sell nowadays.

Also, I don't know about you, but I was a 10 years old brat approaching 11, in 1997, when I first ventured into Final Fantasy. This year's November, if I'll live that long, I'll turn 29. I can accept that folks working at Square-ENIX, CAPCOM, Namco no longer care that much about what I want.

Your right that x is more or less a straight line early on, but at least you can still go back and later on you can visit all the places you went to already.I admit I prefer the earlier games as they give even more exploration than in x, and I already spoke about how every mob is a copy paste.Slime one is weaker than slime 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 etc.There are very few actual monsters, just recoloring and name change.At least though you had blitzball and all the mini games at the end though.Sure I'm being generous to x but blitzball was ok and there were multiple side quests at the end which were pretty tedious.The butterfly Minigame that one of racing chocobos was real hard, dodging lightning and if you had the European version, you got all those optional bosses:The dark Aeons.You also had arena

By the way Leon do you recommend ffxv? I'm just curious.I heard ffXI is fun.I never got into it because at the time I was playing Everquest.

I'll probably try FF VII remake as well even though we know SQEX is trying to sell it to a new generation of gamers who likes style over substance and action-driven sequences non stop. FF VII has its intense moments that would be perfect in HD definition but I wonder how much of this visual element will overshadow the other elements. It's not going to be the same game, they made sure of that.

For all we know Francisco it might be good.There was talk on more emphasis on the story so more added adding more depth and fixing issues with execution.We could be seeing the game ff7 fans always wanted, or f7 fans could get angry and reject it because it ends up being s huge mistake.

We could be seeing the game ff7 fans always wanted, or f7 fans could get angry and reject it because it ends up being s huge mistake.

What kind of game do FF fans always wanted? I don't know about that. Well, certainly for SQEX it can be a huge mistake if they handle it the wrong way. For me it'll be a different game as the real FF VII was launched almost 19 years ago and it's part of many gamers' history like mine. This remake can also be but a different one. You see, no matter how hard they try to recreate the game, it'll be a new experience for old and new fans, liking them or not. SQEX 19 years ago was a different company (it wasn't even SQEX) than the one today. They still release good games but the FF we used to know is now in the past for what is worth.

Some people will complain about anything.We don't know what kind of job is done on ff7 but it looks like it's getting a interesting rework franzito.Even minute stuff changed could potentially anger fans over nothing and it could be almost the same game the fans played 20 years ago minus the bar bell arms.

since hte game isnt out yet (and if it were, i still wouldnt comment on it until i played it) so i wont comment on how it is based on images.
what i can comment on is that making it episodic is fucking retarded. this can imply that the freedom we enjoyed after leaving midgar might be severly reduced. to the point of having the game being linear. "you got the ship. head here. no, you cant go anywhere else until yo go here, bcause youre missing that chapter"

ill definetely buy the game, but only when its complete. or by default, wait for the release of the "complete edition" no matter how long it takes.
i waited a long time for FO3 and NV and even oblivion each for their GOTY editions.

Your right that x is more or less a straight line early on, but at least you can still go back and later on you can visit all the places you went to already.I admit I prefer the earlier games as they give even more exploration than in x, and I already spoke about how every mob is a copy paste.Slime one is weaker than slime 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 etc.There are very few actual monsters, just recoloring and name change.At least though you had blitzball and all the mini games at the end though.Sure I'm being generous to x but blitzball was ok and there were multiple side quests at the end which were pretty tedious.The butterfly Minigame that one of racing chocobos was real hard, dodging lightning and if you had the European version, you got all those optional bosses:The dark Aeons.You also had arena
Yeah, I have the European version; I found Dark Aeons to be fun optional enemies, but also somewhat unbalanced: most of them were viable, but Dark Bahamut was a son of a bitch, I remember buying the Piggyback official strategy guide specifically for some kind of hint about beating that guy without Zanmato, but what did the book say? Nothing. Nada. The Italian translation says in a nutshell that if you do manage to survive through the initial turns, the guy's gonna rape you with Mega Flare, if you want me to use Zanmato, just say it, damn it. At any rate, if I recall correctly, some versions of the PAL/EU FFⅩ [PS2] also came with a Bonus DVD titled "Beyond the Fantasy" (or something like that), I have it but information about its "origin" is sketchy in my head, nowadays, maybe it was included with the original release.

By the way Leon do you recommend ffxv? I'm just curious.I heard ffXI is fun.I never got into it because at the time I was playing Everquest.
I'm going to guess you meant to write FFXIV there and that's a game I can't recommend enough, you might cross paths, or find yourself teamed up with stupid human beings, but sadly most games with certain online features have their share of dickheads, not much you can do about it. Most of the best friendships I've had were "born" on FFⅪ, I've fond memories on my online experience with that game. I do understand paying extra money might throw folks off, but in my opinion, it's worth it.

If you meant FFXV, no, I would never recommend it. I don't like the general look of it and the folks comprising the main cast do remind me of what would pass off as boy band material. I'm gonna pretend FFXV isn't real, thank you.

Ok sorry thought you meant ffXV.I played a little fo ffXI but it was the demo so hardly played any.

what i can comment on is that making it episodic is fucking retarded. this can imply that the freedom we enjoyed after leaving midgar might be severly reduced. to the point of having the game being linear. "you got the ship. head here. no, you cant go anywhere else until yo go here, because you're missing that chapter"

Interesting point that actually links to FF XIII's syndrome "From point A to point B there's nothing in between". I mean, many places in FF VII had special events after some requirements and that would involve "breaking" the linearity. FF XIII had... a pre-historic steppe after hours of dungeon crawling and whiny dialogs? Nothing very special really...
Making FF VII remake a good one will force SQEX to review their mistakes in order to not shoo more fans.

Not quite sure what the point of this thread is. My take on it is that S-E is more in the story-telling/soap opera business rather than in creating games. That's my sense from having played FFX, X-2, XII, and XIII, as well as watching some playthroughs of S-E games that I didn't want to play myself.

In terms of trends, I absolutely hate the recent trends of making the combat "streamlined" (read: giving the player no choice). The old FF's really shined in how they balanced story and combat. You could theoretically play an FF game where you don't like the story if the gameplay is good. That's not the case for me for FFXIII, where the game revolved entirely around the story and the company did everything they could to take player input out of the game. The combat system was also garbage. I know it's a cliche but it really felt like FFXIII played itself and is why I haven't bought an FF game since then. From the very little that they've showcased of FFVII-remake combat, I don't expect S-E to have learned from their mistakes because everyone defends their shitty decisions.

I also wanted to address this idea because I think it's really important:


About the original question you have in the title: duh, nice detective-work, captain obvious; nowadays' old Final Fantasy (but you're free to put any other important franchise there, the same is true) fans don't matter that much, any more. Game-development is a business, they're after the big money and by now, the tastes of folks like you and me, which have played the earlier Final Fantasy, do not matter. Their target are today's teenagers, it has always been like that.

Here is how the gaming demographic break down, according to the Entertainment Software Association.


(Source (http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/29/gaming-advocacy-group-the-average-gamer-is-31-and-most-play-on-a-console/))

The average age of a gamer is 30. So obviously the assumption that only teenagers play video games is not only flat-out wrong, but stupid to have as a company because teenagers comprise 29% of the entire market (male teenagers only 15%). So I think that incorrect notion really has to be stomped out. I think that S-E has to realize that FF is now a more or less niche title that would be much more successful with wider appeal to older audiences than to teenagers.

Well, that's good to know and I'm serious, didn't know about that data. Personally, I've come to believe what I said in the message you've quoted because that was the only possible explanation I could come up with (okay, partly also because of a message by GregaMan on the CAPCOM-Unity board, if memory serves me right) for what happened to some of my most beloved franchises. I think the term you used, streamlined, might be applied to quite a few other games, on a more general level: there have been loads of games which "hold your hand and guide you to the end/staff roll", regardless of your own gaming-skills.

In regard to Ⅶ's Remake, I would be lying if I said what I have seen didn't get me interested, I'll give it a try with as much of an open mind I can have (being a player that approached the Final Fantasy series because of Ⅶ), but for me it will be a win/win situation, regardless of the outcome:

- Will I end up enjoying the Remake? Good for me, no money wasted, as far as I'll be concerned. Besides, even if it does end up being good, the Remake will not take the place of the original for me. (And I'd dare to say the same will be true for many other players).

- Will I find myself not liking it? Won't buy any more episodes and I'll stick to playing the original game.

"Say something!"

"Something."

Oh, good times.

Ff7 is old anyways like 6.It will eventually start to decline if it's allowed when it gets to a certain age since it's original game is already pretty old (19 years old this year) and gets lots of criticism, more so than it did when it was new.I too am interested for the mere sake of storytelling action rpg style and curiosity of what the materia system will be like, and if any new summons and materias will be added.