I am a true fan of FF 8 it is the best one ever in my mind. But I have not played this game in so long it isn't even funny. I am about to start playing through it again here shortly. It has been bugging me for days, I just cant remember, all I can remember is that they were at the same orphanage. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me out.

what other guy? young squall?

a conection between squal and laguna is that the both care about elone (squal's sister)

Please start spoiler-tagging threads like these. If you don't, I'm going to start locking them. Also, stop ignoring people who respond after you post the thread. I don't know if maybe you haven't found the Post Reply button yet, since you only seem to start new threads, but it's right at the bottom of all the messages. In fact, with this new system, it's a message-box right there at that the bottom. You just type it in and hit Quick-Reply, or click the other button for more advanced options.

First of all: the orphans at Matron/Edea's orphanage were Squall, Irvine, Quistis, Zell, Selphie, and Seifer. The only way that Rinoa is linked to any of them is by the fact that she is the daughter of General Caraway and Laguna's Julia. Most people do not realize this, but it is clearly stated that after Laguna is assumed dead, Julia falls in love with the General. Squall's connection with Laguna is the fact that Squall is in love with Laguna's ex-lover's daughter...yeah.

well accually luguna is squalls dad. bake your noodle on that one. yes it is true, after reading the theroy i was quite shocked but the i played ff8 again and all the evadence is there. now you can see the conection between luguna and squall more clarly, and the conection between squall and rinoa. if u want to know more PM me and ill reply if i have the time. lol, squall called his dad a moron

Yea Ive been thinking about it and how is he Squall' dad? It says that they all called her "Sis" cuz she was older. And who's his mom then, Raine?

It's been worked out that Laguna is his Dad, Raine is his mother and 'Sis' Elllone is actually no blood relation.

This has all been hashed and rehashed over and over again in other threads, but a quick rundown anyway:

- Laguna is his Dad because if you Kiros and Ward in the Ragnarok, they say stuff like "You look a lot like your mother," "Ward says it's a good thing you don't look like your father." Additionally, Squall always took Laguna's place in the dream sequences.

- Raine is Squall's mother because the tombstone in the ending says Raine Loire.

- 'Sis' Ellone is no relation because she was born and taken in by Raine before she had even met Laguna.

Ah, thanks. I never talked to Kiros in the Ragnarok. That obviously would have put it together. And then if Squall and Rinoa get married, Laguna would in fact be related to Julia!

hahaha ewww.
how incestuous.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaait a sec! Squalll is related to Ellone because Raine was Squall's mother and Raine was Ellone's mother right? So they are brother and sister! Thats what Squall liked "Sis" so much when he was a kid, and because it's all explained in the game dammit! Rar, I know what it is it's just so hard to explain, I'm gonna go lie down in a corner now untill I stop shivering from my own insanity.

Love Blaise.

um ya laguna is squall's father and ellone is NOT squall's sister...she was just someone in the orphanage that squall looked up to. raine is not ellone's mother, in the game it cleary states that raine took care of ellone, nothing more

I know, sorry people! I feel so stupid right now!

Well...
That's yhe point... Lagina IS Squall's father... That means...
Squall and Rinoa would be brothers? I mean... If Laguna and Julia would married... `o`

wow, i never thought of it that way, my brother was the one who played FFVIII, i just followed along when i felt liek it, i ges i missed that part. i thoguht legina was just a dream.....O_o; *u learn someting new everyday*

The connection was simply Elen, she could make people she knows go back in the bodies of other people she knew or know.She used Squall as a device to help her see Laguna again & remember her childhood, atleast thats how I remember it, if i'm in correct feel free to correct me.

well actually you know Ellon wasn't Laguna's daughter because she always refered to him as Uncle.

Yes Laguna is Squall's father and Raine is his mother. Ellone is no relation. adn it is interesting to note that Laguna once had a crush on the mother of Rinoa, who is Julia, and now Squall likes Rinoa. Weird, huh?

Agent0042, I think most people are looking for an explanation how Laguna is Squall's father, not how you figure out that Laguna is Squall's father.

Well, if they don't know how Laguna is Squall's father, I'm not sure I should be the one to explain that to them. If there's anyone here who doesn't know how Laguna would become Squall's father, I implore you, ask your parents why they never gave you "the talk." If you get get a funny look from them, then say "you know, the 'birds and the bees'" and see if you can get anything out of them. :D

Well, if they don't know how Laguna is Squall's father, I'm not sure I should be the one to explain that to them. If there's anyone here who doesn't know how Laguna would become Squall's father, I implore you, ask your parents why they never gave you "the talk." If you get get a funny look from them, then say "you know, the 'birds and the bees'" and see if you can get anything out of them. :D



Ha! Ha! You're right!

laguna is squall's father because that's what square wants to do with them,
so there's nothing we can do about it!

I swear I've tried to disprove about 3 of these "theories"

Laguna is not Squall's father!!!

Ellone is called "Sis" by Squall because when they were at the orphanage, she was the oldest and so, referred to a as a sister figure.

Ellone is NOT Laguna and Raine's biological child, as the game clearly states in Winhill, she is adopted. Raine did not die giving birth to another child, she was infertile!

Now put that in your pipe and smoke it

Sorry, I just hate theories that have so much evidence to disprove them!

orry, I just hate theories that have so much evidence to disprove them!
WTF?! You haven't offered one shred of evidence that Laguna isn't Squall's father. So much evidence to disprove it? Did you even read over the extensive list of evidence that does prove it?

ultimatefffan, u probably don't read what the cahracters r saying in the game right?
if u read, u might come across where rinoa was like in a coma then squall went 2 d infirmary then he fell asleep, going to the laguna scenario, then he kinda had a talk with ellone, then ellone said something about raine dying when she was giving birth 2 a child. now who the hell's this child if u ask, it's squall of course! remember the engagement scene of laguna and raine at the end, they got married and had a child, but laguna has to go save ellone, now he also has to stay behind and send ellone back to winhill cuz he had to save esthar! now he didn't see his kid then raine died and this baby and ellone was sent to orphanage, edea's orphanage. so now, the story begins.
and for additional info, ellone tries to change the past so laguna wouldn't stay in esthar and see his baby that is squall.
got it?

Taking what you've said in this thread:


Laguna is not Squall's father!!!

Ellone is called "Sis" by Squall because when they were at the orphanage, she was the oldest and so, referred to a as a sister figure.

Ellone is NOT Laguna and Raine's biological child, as the game clearly states in Winhill, she is adopted. Raine did not die giving birth to another child, she was infertile!

Now put that in your pipe and smoke it

Sorry, I just hate theories that have so much evidence to disprove them!

I'd LOVE to know where you got all this "evidence" you keep referring to, since not one scrap of it is supported by anything in the game.

So what if Ellone's heritage IS unknown... Raine DID adopt her, but that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Squall's patronage. Squall would call Ellone 'Sis' naturally, since she would be his adopted sister, even if they weren't blood-related. The others at the orphanage would probably have picked up on this, explaining why they all called her 'Sis'.
The only thing that remains a mystery, since Raine and Laguna undoubtedly WERE Squall's parents is why he doesn't use 'Loire' as his surname. Especially since Ellone uses it. For that, you'd have to ask the Kramers, and I'm 100% sure they never say anything about it during the game. But I'd guess Squaresoft used a different suranme, because otherwise they'd have to deal with endless 'How come Squall didn't know' questions far too early in the game.

ummmmm........ maybe squall named himself as leonhart cuz he has a heart like a lion?
and u know, it's really square's descision cuz u see rinoa's last name is heartilly, as if she was very hearty, and was able 2 touch squall's heart that is like a lion, that's when leonhart came in.
well, i guess.... this is how... it's done.....

ummmmm........ maybe squall named himself as leonhart cuz he has a heart like a lion?
Possibly... that would certainly tie in with 'Maybe I'm A Lion' off of the soundtrack.

Y isnt Rinoa's last name caraway?????

Because she hates her father.

laguna is squall's dad

im not sure where you here this in the game but ellones parents were killed protecting her and raine took her in and then laguna washed up on the shore of winhill after he jumped off the cliff in centra and the esthar soldiers come back and laguna cant stop them so he goes on a quest to find ellone and the reason why ellone uses squall to go back in the past is to try and get laguna stay at home with raine so he can see his and raines son as laguna says in esthar and ellone says in lunar base and the reason that squall calls her sis is because they were the first two there as you get told also by someone i think laguna again as edea and cid opened it for ellone when they found out about sorceress adel wanting to take her to esthar.

Ah, thanks. I never talked to Kiros in the Ragnarok. That obviously would have put it together. And then if Squall and Rinoa get married, Laguna would in fact be related to Julia!

Small problem with that: Julia died.

Yeah, but all the same, they would still be related. At least, I think that's how it works. That someone can still become a relation through marriage even after they're dead. But somebody who knows more about that than I do would have to confirm.

Well you have cid and edea are married.
I think edea was some how related to raine.

As for squalls parents i think it was raine and laguna. But i think julia and rinoa are related. Maybe julia is rinoas mum.

julia is rinoas mom.when you go back to the dream world and ur in winhill raine tells laguna and kiros that general conaway(sp?)went and married a singer/pianist(julia)after her soldier(laguna)went into a war and went missing.so to make this clearer:laguna and raine are squall's parents.general conaway and julia is rinoas parents.

Exactly! Which is why Devil22001 was saying that Laguna and Julia would end up being related if Squall and Rinoa were to get married.

yes thats right but that also means squall and general caraway become related as well.

Do you guys think quistis selphie irvine and zell are related in someway as well
as they were all in the orphaninge.

(just a question so please dont bite my head off)

Do you guys think quistis selphie irvine and zell are related in someway as well as they were all in the orphaninge.

(just a question so please dont bite my head off)

no, they're not related. they're just friends that first met at the orphanage.

Okay... (my first post. Yay!)

Laguna is Squall's dad. It is not stated directly, but if you really pay attention to the clues, put two and two together, it makes a lot of sense.

Laguna ended up in Winhill, he ended up falling in love with Raine. You see that at the very end of the game when Laguna looks down on Raine's grave and remembers proposing to her. However, Ellone was taken by Esthar and then Laguna went out to search for her. Raine was pregnant, but later died after having a baby boy. In the last flashback when Squall and the others make it to Esthar, you find out that Ellone was rescued by Laguna in Esthar. He says later that he sent Ellone back to Winhill so she would be safe from Adel. He was very busy in Esthar trying to rid the world of Adel and then later running the country. He was unable to make it back to Raine. When she died, Ellone and the baby boy were sent to the same orphanage. Later we find out that Ellone was taken by Edea to the White Seed ship. So the little boy, Squall, didn't know what to do without her.

Technically, Ellone and Squall are not brother and sister. Ellone was left with Raine, which was her aunt I believe. I don't quite remember. >_< But they did have a brother and sister relationship. Also, everyone in the orphanage called her "Sis" but Squall was especially attached to her.

Here's a few quotes:

"Ellone: You can't change the past. I just found that out. When I was
kidnapped, Uncle Laguna went on a journey to find me... But because he
did, Uncle Laguna wasn't able to be by Raine's side when she died.
Raine wanted to show Laguna her new born baby... Raine kept calling out
for Laguna. So no matter what, I wanted Laguna to stay in the village...
But it didn't work. I can no longer make it back to that moment... And
also... I can only send you inside someone I've met before. I'm sorry,
Squall. I'm about to disconnect. I'll try again to speak to you this
way."

When you're on the Ragnarok, before going to the Lunatic Pandora, talk to Ward and he says "..." Kiros then says something along the lines of "He's glad that you don't look like your father. You look like your mother though"

Then when you talk to Laguna again he says that he'll explain everything when it's all over, but he'll understand if he doesn't want to hear it.

So that pretty much explains it without being overly obvious and blunt. Square leaves it up to you to draw the conclusion from the facts given if you pay attention to them. :)

Bobbi's right. All of the clues are what Bobbi just said, anyway, Welcome to FFShrine, Bobbi.

but why is Squall's last name Leonhart and not loire

because squall doesn't know that laguna loire is his father, so his last name is leonhart, not loire. we're not certain why his last name is leonhart though.

...maybe he changed it...duh

ummmmm........ maybe squall named himself as leonhart cuz he has a heart like a lion?
and u know, it's really square's descision cuz u see rinoa's last name is heartilly, as if she was very hearty, and was able 2 touch squall's heart that is like a lion, that's when leonhart came in.
well, i guess.... this is how... it's done.....

or...maybe WE'LL NEVER KNOW!!!

or...maybe WE'LL NEVER KNOW!!!

we should ask square-enix.

well accually luguna is squalls dad. bake your noodle on that one. yes it is true, after reading the theroy i was quite shocked but the i played ff8 again and all the evadence is there. now you can see the conection between luguna and squall more clarly, and the conection between squall and rinoa. if u want to know more PM me and ill reply if i have the time. lol, squall called his dad a moron

!!!!!!!!!! Omg, I never realised that! I just came to a conclusion that Squall's parents were just dead and never mentioned after Kiros and Ward say like: "Good thing you don't look like your dad." and " You look so much like your mother." like that. Woah never thought of it, and Raine's eyes do look like Squall's too. But then again, Squall and Ellone are not sister and brother, just close

!!!!!!!!!! Omg, I never realised that! I just came to a conclusion that Squall's parents were just dead and never mentioned after Kiros and Ward say like: "Good thing you don't look like your dad." and " You look so much like your mother." like that. Woah never thought of it, and Raine's eyes do look like Squall's too. But then again, Squall and Ellone are not sister and brother, just close

they're neighbors.

Well yeah I know that. No well they're almost like step- brother + sis cause Raine adopted Ellone so kind of like a daughter and Squall is her son so...

Well yeah I know that. No well they're almost like step- brother + sis cause Raine adopted Ellone so kind of like a daughter and Squall is her son so...

they're neighbors and squall is ellone's stepbrother and vice versa

I realy love the game becourse of the story of Squale and his father.
Never realised anyone couldn,t have known. It,s obvious if you realy listen to what is told. =)

Squall is Laguna` son, Laguna is Squalls father, Ellone is Squalls sister, Laguna is Ellones father. Easy.

Squall is Laguna` son, Laguna is Squalls father, Ellone is Squalls sister, Laguna is Ellones father. Easy.

No. Laguna is NOT Ellone's father. Squall is NOT Ellone's brother.

They're more like... Stepfather and stepsister/brothers

Ellone is adopted, ergo, she cannot be Squall's biological sister

rinoa_heartilly and UltimateFFFan are right, Dirge. I'm afraid you're only two for four. Didn't you notice that Ellone referred to Laguna as "Uncle Laguna?" And even that was only a term of affection --- there was no blood relation between them. Same with "Sis Elle" --- the two weren't actually brother and sister.

rinoa_heartilly and UltimateFFFan are right, Dirge. I'm afraid you're only two for four. Didn't you notice that Ellone referred to Laguna as "Uncle Laguna?" And even that was only a term of affection --- there was no blood relation between them. Same with "Sis Elle" --- the two weren't actually brother and sister.

I would still diagree but i see where you guys are coming from. Maybe i just took it a different way when playing the game but i felt that this story was happening to two generations of a family.

Laguna is probably Squall's father, since we never do know what happend to Raine's son, and Kiros and Ward have quotes that are a little suspicious when they are aboard of Ragnarok # Good thing your not like your father# and # You look much like your mother# since Matron ( Edea) and Laguna meet on Laguna's quest finding Elone , it's a good chance that she took care of Squall

Laguna is probably Squall's father, since we never do know what happend to Raine's son, and Kiros and Ward have quotes that are a little suspicious when they are aboard of Ragnarok # Good thing your not like your father# and # You look much like your mother# since Matron ( Edea) and Laguna meet on Laguna's quest finding Elone , it's a good chance that she took care of Squall

That`s exactly what i got from it. There are little hints here and there.

And Raine only took care of Ellone since her parent's died, Laguna only loved Rinoa's mother before that, and there are no references to Laguna have been to windhill ( thanks UltimateFFFan) before that

You mean Winhill...... There is a reference which states that Laguna was only in Winhill for the eradication of monsters....... I'd assume that Ellone had managed to run away and Raine had found her and looked after her, and because she had, Laguna fell in love with Raine. Tidus 66, there is one problem. Laguna hadn't met Raine until he got to Winhill, and he found Ellone at Winhill, so how could he have had his son, before meeting his wife? =\ Other than that, the theory seems good. The other problem is, he could'nt have asked Edea to take care of Squall as he had not been born yet........

Here are the main points to sum up, for any newbies who are confused by this:

1) We've basically agreed on Laguna is Squall's father
2) Ellone and Squall are not brother and sister. Squall simply calls Ellone "Sis" because of the strong bond between them
3) Squall is Raine's son.
4) Laguna met with Edea on his journey to find Ellone
5) Ellone is adopted
6) Kiros and Ward kind of make the point that Squall is Raine and Laguna's son. If you look at Raine in the final FMV, and look at squall, you'll see they look similar

Shown here in these pictures:





They both have blue eyes and the same slightly elongated nose

There is a reference which states that Laguna was only in Winhill for the eradication of monsters

Laguna was only in Winhill to pay back for the kindness that the village has given him(Especially Raine) by portecting the village from monsters.

(Sorry to quote this, but the statement you gave was a little wrong. It's a little wrong because you didn't include what I said above.The other ones are all correct. :) )

Raine looks similar to squall in the final FMV? I never noticed that before

yes everything that ufff said is true

Raine did not die giving birth to another child, she was infertile!

Where the hell did you get that info from?

Kiros : you're really like your mother
Ward : good thing you're not like you're father......
or something like that...........
the fact that squall is laguna's son is..............the greatest joke ever made!!!!!!!!!!!!

.................so it's "Squall Loire"?????? it sounds weird...............

Actually, it's true. Squall is Laguna's son. Like it or not.

Also, hello and welcome to the forums. :D

It would have been more satisfying, if at the end, Laguna reveals all of this to Squall... instead of keeping everyone out there in the open (its obvious and all, but couldnt they just tie it up a bit?)

Raine did not die giving birth to another child, she was infertile!

What are you talking about?

Sorry, that was my poor attempt at an argument against it. It was based upon someone else's comment at another site. Since that time, I have realised the error of my ways, and turned to the other side

It would have been more satisfying, if at the end, Laguna reveals all of this to Squall... instead of keeping everyone out there in the open (its obvious and all, but couldnt they just tie it up a bit?)
Then Squall would go crazy, if he finds out Laguna is his long lost father. Remember? Laguna didn't reveal that he was Squall's father because he knows that Squall would hate it. In the dream sequence, he keeps insulting(Kind of insulting...) Laguna. After Squall woke up, he said "I dreamt I was a moron." Especially when Squall finally meets Laguna in Esthar. Squall said Laguna was like a clumsy man or something like that.

But Squall has to suspect something doesnt he? Maybe he would just be wondering why people left him in the dark, he wont be too proud of Laguna being his father, but he would come through in the end.

I still think they should have told him -_-

But Squall has to suspect something doesnt he? Maybe he would just be wondering why people left him in the dark, he wont be too proud of Laguna being his father, but he would come through in the end.

I still think they should have told him -_-
I just don't know why, but I don't think Squall really cares that much about his past. The only thing that he cares about, in his past, was the whole orphanage childhood memory, and Ellone.

you do have a point, he seems to brush off the idea of his parents really quickly. When he is on ragnarok with Rinoa and Rinoa makes some comments and he just replies that he never knew his parents.

Maybe hes just become to preoccupied with everything around him.

However, when I think about it more, Its a great deal of surprise element that you get when you see the end of ff8 and realize that Laguna is really Squalls father. So thats better than nothing at all...

you do have a point, he seems to brush off the idea of his parents really quickly. When he is on ragnarok with Rinoa and Rinoa makes some comments and he just replies that he never knew his parents.

Maybe hes just become to preoccupied with everything around him.

However, when I think about it more, Its a great deal of surprise element that you get when you see the end of ff8 and realize that Laguna is really Squalls father. So thats better than nothing at all...
Square-Enix wants the fans to be finding that out theirselves rather than just telling it straight out.

Square-Enix wants the fans to be finding that out theirselves rather than just telling it straight out.
as they do in all the FF games.

read this section of a faq. it has some interesting stuff. i will put the most important part that i want people to read in bold.(by the way, i got this from gamefaqs.com. it was a guide pertaining to the rinoa-ultimecia theory, and talked about time compression and many other things):

"In ancient Greece there was a king named Mausolus and a queen named
Artemisia. When Mausolus died, Artemisia was so grief stricken and devoted
that she made it the rest of her life's work to build him the greatest
tomb ever built, which she did. The tomb was so amazing that it's one of
the Seven Wonders of the World, and it's why extravegant tombs are known
as "mausoleums" to this day.

Well, in the Japanese version of FFVIII, Ultimecia is spelled
"arutimishia". It's entirely possible that her name was intended to be
Artemisia, but the translators mistakenly thought it was supposed to be
Ultimecia, since the spell Ultima is spelled "arutima" in Japanese."

End quote.

Legend also goes that every day, Artemisia would mix some of his ashes into
a drink and thus slowly consume her dead husband. It certainly seems like
Artemisia didn't handle the loss of her love that well, and she seems to
have gone somewhat insane, what with dedicating the rest of her life to his
tomb and slowly consuming him!

Consider then that Ultimecia is called "Artemisia" in some translations
(German for instance).

In history, Artemisia and Mausolus were also brother and sister. In the
game, Rinoa and Squall are as close to sister and brother as possible
without involving incest, something Square would obviously never do.
Laguna, Squalls father, and Julia, Rinoas mother were deeply in love, yet
were torn apart. Was this Squares way of hinting at a very close
connection, almost sibling-like?

So the whole entanglment with LagunaxJulia is to show how close Rinoa and Squall would be later on?

and wait, whats up with Ultimecia then.. besides name relations, how is she related to Artemisia?

well, it's supposed to be about how rinoa could have gone crazy and become ultimecia, much like artemisia. if you'd like, i will post a link here for you to read the faq.
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_viii_time_ultimecia.txt
if that doesn't work, go to www.gamefaqs.com, and then go to the FFVIII faqs. the title of the faq is time/ultimecia plot faq

So, If Rinoa were to possibly believe Squall dead, and lets say never find him in the time compression... she would end up hopelessly fantasizing over him just like Artemisia?

crazy.

yeah, but, let's not talk about this here, because it's off topic. PM me

So, If Rinoa were to possibly believe Squall dead, and lets say never find him in the time compression... she would end up hopelessly fantasizing over him just like Artemisia?

crazy.
No. She would go for Seifer instead.

Just kidding.

In history, Artemisia and Mausolus were also brother and sister. In the game, Rinoa and Squall are as close to sister and brother as possible without involving incest, something Square would obviously never do. Laguna, Squalls father, and Julia, Rinoas mother were deeply in love, yet
were torn apart. Was this Squares way of hinting at a very close
connection, almost sibling-like?
Sort of. But Square-Enix didn't really want to hint the players this kind of connection. They want you to just find out what really happened to Laguna. And if you find out what happened to Laguna, then you'll find out what's the connection between Laguna and Squall.

Sort of. But Square-Enix didn't really want to hint the players this kind of connection. They want you to just find out what really happened to Laguna. And if you find out what happened to Laguna, then you'll find out what's the connection between Laguna and Squall.
i know what the connection is. i just posted that because i thought it was interesting(i didn't write it, by the way)