This is going against rabid monkey's thread on why FF7 ISN'T a good game. I'll think of all my reasons for it later, but other people feel free.

This is actually pretty much the same thread as the other one. Just this one has a different title.

It's an awesome game because of the materia system, the story, the characters, I mean, everything about it rocks. ^_^

It's an awesome game because of the materia system, the story, the characters, I mean, everything about it rocks. ^_^

exactly, Dru. That and all the wonderful mini-games and confusing but gripping storyline.

And so far you've failed to say anything convincing. The other thread has addressed all this.

It seems to me that the entire purpose of this thread is so you guys can drool over the game some more without saying anything that's actually meaningful. And you do realize we can anally rape the game some more by just copying and pasting from the other thread, don't you?

Of course they don't, they're FF7 fans for crying out loud, you have to show them! >:)

i think that this is such a good game cuz the battle system, the matiria system and the story line is just plain awsome. And you get to know the characters like they are real people. plus, the mini games are really fun. I luv breading chocobos

OK but why are teh battle system teh matriaiaweoipau system and teh stryo lien soo coolz n u sicko hwav sex'd cocoboz.

OK but why are teh battle system teh matriaiaweoipau system and teh stryo lien soo coolz n u sicko hwav sex'd cocoboz.

....I don't know about you, but I speak ENGLISH. I have no idea whether you just gave FFVII a compliment or dissed it. I seriously have no idea. Also...

And so far you've failed to say anything convincing. The other thread has addressed all this.

It seems to me that the entire purpose of this thread is so you guys can drool over the game some more without saying anything that's actually meaningful. And you do realize we can anally rape the game some more by just copying and pasting from the other thread, don't you?

You do realize that we can do exactly the same thing to you, don't you? And as for you "covering all this", I read the other thread. It's lame. It has a point, but everyone uses circular reasoning there. Completely without proof or reason. You state something, leave it at that, and expect everyone to accept it as fact. Now, maybe if you could actually back ANY of your opinions up with fact, then maybe FFVII fans would go "Hey, maybe they're right. Maybe FFVII does suck, and we've ignored it all along." But, you don't. You argue, and claim to be right no matter what. Guess what? FFVII has the biggest fanbase, which is still continuing to grow to this day. The battle system was simple and immediately playable, while maintaining a great deal of depth. The moves and spells available to you were many, but all easily accessable. The story and music blended together to emotionally involve the player to a degree that few games have improved upon. This was helped by the producer channeling his own emotions through the game, making it more real, easier to feel and sympathize. That is the main draw of the game. True, the non-battle mode character models need some work, but the CGI and battle-mode (NBM) models were excellent for the day. Aside from that, FFVII was one of the games that helped pull not only RPGs into the mainstream, but 3-D gaming as a whole as well. So, the NBM models weren't the primary concern then. The story, music, and gameplay were, and that's what made the game so amazing. Now, I'm not saying that any Final Fantasy is bad (except maybe Crystal Chronicles). In fact, I like them all very much. FFVII just happens to be my favorite. Don't like that? Too bad. It ain't changing. I don't care that you don't like (or really loath/hate) FFVII, what I care about is your asshole attitudes that everyone who is a big FFVII fan is inferior to you for some reason. With a few exceptions, they're not. Get over it. In short, I am sick of your bashing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you guys have crossed the line. Your arguments are so weak, flawed, and without merit that you have to resort to bashing the players themselves (which I guess I just did, with the exception that my argument is none of the above, so don't try and say I contradicted myself). Mm'kay? Good.

Well I'm on this thread's side. It's a good game for any otaku like me!

It IS a great game because it's the best character design in all Final Fantasys.

An anime fan(I would think) is a Final Fantasy VII fan!

If you like anime character designs.

Master Nabeshin, you're still saying nothing of worth. You've utterly failed to make any halfway decent points in support of the game. All you've done is try to discredit us, which shows that you either cannot find a way to defend the game or you cannot make a convincing argument for your reasons.

If you want to try debating the issue, come to the real thread. I'm leaving this one for the kiddies to play in.

i agree what is said here is what has been said in the other thread try reading it

See, there he goes again. Merely stating his opinions, and expecting them to be accepted as fact. When someone opposes him, he tries to swat them down. His reasons? I don't know. I'm not going to try to guess. Prak, you say I say nothing of worth. Prove it. As far as I'm concerned, everything you've ever said in either of these threads hasn't been good enough for my dog to shit on. You offer no evidence for your arguments. Give some substance to your arguments.

If you want to try debating the issue, come to the real thread. I'm leaving this one for the kiddies to play in.

See, there he goes again. Merely stating his opinions, and expecting them to be accepted as fact. When someone opposes him, he tries to swat them down. His reasons? I don't know. I'm not going to try to guess. Prak, you say I say nothing of worth. Prove it. As far as I'm concerned, everything you've ever said in either of these threads hasn't been good enough for my dog to shit on. You offer no evidence for your arguments. Give some substance to your arguments.


yea i just got here, so i checked this thread out real quick, i would look at the other one, but i'm too lazy to read 15+ pages of that. but what is that guy talking about, you did bash him a bit n all, but you stated quite a few reasons why you like the game and what makes it a good game. does he just not read certain things?

You name things saying they're good aspects of the game, but you do not give any detailed descriptions of why those things were good aspects of the game.

Seriously, if all you can do is name aspects of the game, and expect people to think that makes the game good you're going to fail miserably. Try going into some actual details. Like an actual situation in the game where the Materia System really shines, or music, or graphics or story/plotline.

Give Details! Or don't bother arguing!

You name things saying they're good aspects of the game, but you do not give any detailed descriptions of why those things were good aspects of the game.

Seriously, if all you can do is name aspects of the game, and expect people to think that makes the game good you're going to fail miserably. Try going into some actual details. Like an actual situation in the game where the Materia System really shines, or music, or graphics or story/plotline.

Give Details! Or don't bother arguing!

the materia system is actually pretty dam cool. you can set it up with counter materias and a bunch of the same magics, like lightning materia. like using counter,command counter, magic counter, quadra magic, and a bunch of lightning materia, and thers tons of other ways and stuff to do it. and when you get hit, your character will automatically counter attack, counterattack with a deathblow, and counter by using lightning or watever magic 4 times...8 times if you level up ur quadra magic. and then theres the double cut, which is rediculous. i leveled it up to a 4x hit, and with cloud at full life with ultima weapon, one regular turn does 35-40 thousand hp of damage

Oh yeah, well in Legend of Legaia, you could absorb your enemies and summon them to do massive damage against your opponents, plus you had that nifty combo battle system that pwned the hell out of the FF7 battle system. A better story and overall even better music.

Also, in Valkyrie Profile you had the ability to spend your EXP points to increase individual stats as you saw fit, and learn spells, etc. much like in FF Tactics. Again, storyline and music that pwns FF7.

And you're still being pretty damn general concerning the materia system. The major complaint given is that there is no unique ability for any character where magic is concerned because anyone can become anything when it comes to magic and the vast majority of the abilities in the game.

Limit Breaks were discussed as being pretty pointless because they disabled your normal attack command, thus making it where you have to waste the Limit on a weaker enemy, or waste MP on said weaker enemy in favor of saving it for a later battle. Not to mention the limits themselves getting to be pretty old-hat after the first few uses.

And the storyline is only "deep" and "complex" if you've never read any good books in your entire life. And speaking of which, FF7's storyline would only make a marginal paperback series in terms of quality--much like the DOOM novels and Aliens vs. Predator. Nowhere near the caliber of such greats as Dune or Lord of the Rings or The Neuromancer (sp? Been ages since I read that one).

Basically, FF7 is not all that damn good, nor is there that much replay value as the game was pretty damn linear throughout--sidequests included.

Did yall know that materia means timber in latin.

Master Nabeshin, you're still saying nothing of worth. You've utterly failed to make any halfway decent points in support of the game. All you've done is try to discredit us, which shows that you either cannot find a way to defend the game or you cannot make a convincing argument for your reasons.

If you want to try debating the issue, come to the real thread. I'm leaving this one for the kiddies to play in.

ya know, Prak, I knew you'd come in here and try and dis FFVII all the way to hell, but face it, there's more people on this site that like FFVII over all the others, jsut look at the post count for the FFVII forums!! Ha, take that! :-(

But, I haven't come in here dissing FFVII to hell. All I've done is point out that this thread is nothing but a sandbox for the kiddies who can't debate to play in. I'm dissing it in the other thread.

And we've addressed the popularity of the game in the other thread...

This thread is plagiarism. I demand compensation.

OMG! Someone spelled plagiarism properly! :)

this game is a classic good characters, and etc. it's good!!!

But, I haven't come in here dissing FFVII to hell. All I've done is point out that this thread is nothing but a sandbox for the kiddies who can't debate to play in. I'm dissing it in the other thread.

And we've addressed the popularity of the game in the other thread...
Sorry, but 6 pages at the most is sufficient to absolutely prove why in your opinion, FFVII is not good, why it even downright sucks. 15+ pages? Now that is just relentlessly bashing. I have no idea what you have against FFVII (c'mon, it's obvious you do. And "it sucks" is not an answer!), and actually I don't care. But there's something about it you obviously loathe. So, what IS your goal in bashing it? Just curious.

So, what IS your goal in bashing it? Just curious.

Consider this an outside observation of what is being said:

I believe he has just as much right to talk about why he doesn't like it as you have to talk about why you do. From what I've seen he does a much better job at backing up what he says than you do, which really gives him more of a reason to ask you what your goal is in constantly repeating the same thing that he has disproved over and over.

BASICALLY, FF7 THREAD COUNT IS HIGHER BECAUSE OF FUCKING USELESS CUNTS WHO JOIN FOR A MONTH AND THEN LEAVE DUE TO THE FACT THERE IS ONLY SO MANY TIMES THEY CAN POST 'FF7 ROX COZ I SAY SO, N IS SOOO COOL. CLOUD IS WELL CUUUTE N TIFAS N YUFFIE N OH GODDDDDDDD, IVE JUS CUM IN MY WICKLE PANTIES'
ADVICE?
FUCK RIGHT OFF AND DON'T COME BACK.

Sorry, but 6 pages at the most is sufficient to absolutely prove why in your opinion, FFVII is not good, why it even downright sucks. 15+ pages? Now that is just relentlessly bashing. I have no idea what you have against FFVII (c'mon, it's obvious you do. And "it sucks" is not an answer!), and actually I don't care. But there's something about it you obviously loathe. So, what IS your goal in bashing it? Just curious.

So once they hit 6 pages they can't respond to the FF7 fans that come in and post?

They don't just say "It sucks", if you actually read the topic, or at least one of their main posts, they do come out with some pretty good arguments. You just don't seem to read anything except your own posts. If you call something like this:

You do realize that we can do exactly the same thing to you, don't you? And as for you "covering all this", I read the other thread. It's lame. It has a point, but everyone uses circular reasoning there. Completely without proof or reason. You state something, leave it at that, and expect everyone to accept it as fact. Now, maybe if you could actually back ANY of your opinions up with fact, then maybe FFVII fans would go "Hey, maybe they're right. Maybe FFVII does suck, and we've ignored it all along." But, you don't. You argue, and claim to be right no matter what. Guess what? FFVII has the biggest fanbase, which is still continuing to grow to this day. The battle system was simple and immediately playable, while maintaining a great deal of depth. The moves and spells available to you were many, but all easily accessable. The story and music blended together to emotionally involve the player to a degree that few games have improved upon. This was helped by the producer channeling his own emotions through the game, making it more real, easier to feel and sympathize. That is the main draw of the game. True, the non-battle mode character models need some work, but the CGI and battle-mode (NBM) models were excellent for the day. Aside from that, FFVII was one of the games that helped pull not only RPGs into the mainstream, but 3-D gaming as a whole as well. So, the NBM models weren't the primary concern then. The story, music, and gameplay were, and that's what made the game so amazing. Now, I'm not saying that any Final Fantasy is bad (except maybe Crystal Chronicles). In fact, I like them all very much. FFVII just happens to be my favorite. Don't like that? Too bad. It ain't changing. I don't care that you don't like (or really loath/hate) FFVII, what I care about is your asshole attitudes that everyone who is a big FFVII fan is inferior to you for some reason. With a few exceptions, they're not. Get over it. In short, I am sick of your bashing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you guys have crossed the line. Your arguments are so weak, flawed, and without merit that you have to resort to bashing the players themselves (which I guess I just did, with the exception that my argument is none of the above, so don't try and say I contradicted myself). Mm'kay? Good.

a "good argument" in favor of FF7, I laugh at you.
1) They don't bash the players, they bash their refusal to even reading their logical arguments and make an articulate reply.
2) you said the battle system was simple and yet had depth. If you want them to back their statements up with fact, BACK YOURS UP! Why is this so?
3) "The producers channeled their emotions into the game." wtf does that mean? I don't know because you didn't explain this claim or give FACTual examples. Explain how FF7 was "more real, easier to feel and sympathize" than whatever you are comparing it to (which isn't clear)
4) "FF7 has lots of fans, so it's right." Personally I do not base my opinions on the simple fact that lots of other people have a certain opinion. You can, but I prefer to have REASONS. It is my opinion that the majority of the American population (I have no experience with other populations) is greatly influenced by simple advertising. How do you find out about a product but advertising (not 100%, but a great deal)? FF7 was heavily advertised as "must-have" so therefore a lot of people knew about it. If more people know about a game, than more people will buy it, even if the same percentage buy it as that of a better, less-well known game (Prince of Persia was a great game that came out a little while ago, but it was not heavily advertised, so less people knew about it, so less people bought it. And being based on a movie IS advertising, as in the case of Lord of the Rings). Also, it is my opinion that the general population of America is stupider than me, so why should I blindly accept their opinion? I am not talking about this board, but simply people in general.

I didn't mean for this to be so long, especially since I have never played FF7. I am not making a judgement on it, just that I have seen those opposed to it making better arguments. I note the difference in post count between the yea's and the nay's (Two people that are opposed to FF7 have about 3000 posts, compared to about 30 or 50).

Also, This is not the topic where they are bashing FF7. Here, they are simply saying that they are doing it in the other, older thread. If you want to debate them you should focus on that thread (I have seen some of your replies in that thread, and they need more development). As of yet I haven't seen anyone saying WHY parts of FF7 are good in this thread. Only that the posters think there are parts that are good.

Listen If you guys don't like FFVII then why post on this forum and write a shitty little topic saying the game is shit.A word of advice SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

Listen If you guys don't like FFVII then why post on this forum and write a shitty little topic saying the game is shit.A word of advice SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!


thats why they do it, because the majority of the responses are like that, just telling them to shut up and not really counter them with decent arguments. I'm not saying i agree with them, i like the game, but i'm also to lazy and don't really come on here enough to bother getting caught up in a huge debate over this. although i will say that they don't seem to give much credit to the occasional decent arguments for the game being good either.

occasional decent arguments for the game being good either

Care to give an example of a good argument?

Seriously, I have yet to see one on the part of an FFVII fan. All I see are the same arguments people give trying to say that DBZ is a good anime, when it obviously isn't.

"It's so creative/cool/OMGZ awesome graphics/kickass story/blahblahblah"

Also, they haven't said FFVII sucks, they've just said it isn't worthy of the hideous fandom worship it gets.

I'm the one that said it sucked, though. And none of you have proven that wrong, either.

Care to give an example of a good argument?

Seriously, I have yet to see one on the part of an FFVII fan. All I see are the same arguments people give trying to say that DBZ is a good anime, when it obviously isn't.

"It's so creative/cool/OMGZ awesome graphics/kickass story/blahblahblah"

Also, they haven't said FFVII sucks, they've just said it isn't worthy of the hideous fandom worship it gets.

I'm the one that said it sucked, though. And none of you have proven that wrong, either.

Tbh, no one is wrong whether it sucks or not. It's an opinion and an opinion cannot be proven wrong because there is no right or wrong opinion, because an opinion is completley different from a fact right?

I like it not because the graphics were better, but because it's the closest one to Japanese animation. The graphics caught everone's eye, while it was the anime look that made me like it. I may be like everyone else liking it, but a totally different reason.

I don't even care what RM thinks about FFVII. That's his opinion and I can accept that.

The one thing offensive that he said was " It sickens me seeing all these FFVII fangirls and fanboys... so and so", that's like bashing the FFVII fans. It's like, "well excuse me for liking something alittle popular", I'm not mad at him, but I just don't like it. Oh well.

Tbh, no one is wrong whether it sucks or not. It's an opinion and an opinion cannot be proven wrong because there is no right or wrong opinion, because an opinion is completley different from a fact right?

I like it not because the graphics were better, but because it's the closest one to Japanese animation. The graphics caught everone's eye, while it was the anime look that made me like it. I may be like everyone else liking it, but a totally different reason.

I don't even care what RM thinks about FFVII. That's his opinion and I can accept that.

The one thing offensive that he said was " It sickens me seeing all these FFVII fangirls and fanboys... so and so", that's like bashing the FFVII fans. It's like, "well excuse me for liking something alittle popular", I'm not mad at him, but I just don't like it. Oh well. Exactly

The one thing offensive that he said was " It sickens me seeing all these FFVII fangirls and fanboys... so and so", that's like bashing the FFVII fans. It's like, "well excuse me for liking something alittle popular", I'm not mad at him, but I just don't like it. Oh well.
I agree with RM there though. I'm not sure exactly what he said, because I don't feel like scavenging through the other thread to look for it. But it personally sickens me to see how the majority, and probably most, of the FFVII fans act. In short, they <B>act</B> like complete retards.

I personally really enjoyed playing FF7 and still do every know and then. I do not like the majority of the people who post in the FF7 forum. They seem to make me look less intelligent when I say that I like FF7. I will be the first to admit that FF7 has many flaws is overhyped and was over advertised but I still like the game.

10-21-2004, 11:52 PM #29
Gene Starwind
SEXY BEAST!!!!


Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: wouldn't you like to know
Posts: 8

I rest my case, you fucking penis.

oh shut the fuck up and find something useful to do with your life rather than flame people.And stop flaming the fans of FFVII Like Tifa Rinoa said its a persons opinion there is nothing you can do about it.If people like ffvii than so what it doesn't affect you in any way

oh shut the fuck up and find something useful to do with your life rather than flame people.And stop flaming the fans of FFVII Like Tifa Rinoa said its a persons opinion there is nothing you can do about it.If people like ffvii than so what it doesn't affect you in any way

Yet the people that feel it is their job to defend FFVII with their life (like you) seem to feel that if another person doesn't like the game it is the end of the world. And for the record, many people have backed up their opinions with well thought out arguments and facts when they say that FFVII is a bad game. I have only seen ONE person present a good argument as to why FFVII could be considered a good game and it sure as hell wasn't anyone that posted in this thread.

Ok why I think FF 7 is such a good game? Perhaps because still today it can be compared in terms of pure entertainment to other games that costed thrice as much to make and with better graphics and whatnot.

FF 7 became a classic and I think that all games that can stand the test of time while still being enjoyed over the world can be called a really good game.

Sure you can go into details like "good matieraia stgas system" or whatever but basically the game in its entirety is unmatched so far according to me, at least for console RPGs :P.

In other words, more of the same stuff we've been countering with real arguments for weeks.

By the way, you blew it by stating it as your opinion. We're dealing in fact, which always trumps opinions.

Oh yeah, well in Legend of Legaia, you could absorb your enemies and summon them to do massive damage against your opponents, plus you had that nifty combo battle system that pwned the hell out of the FF7 battle system. A better story and overall even better music.

Also, in Valkyrie Profile you had the ability to spend your EXP points to increase individual stats as you saw fit, and learn spells, etc. much like in FF Tactics. Again, storyline and music that pwns FF7.

And you're still being pretty damn general concerning the materia system. The major complaint given is that there is no unique ability for any character where magic is concerned because anyone can become anything when it comes to magic and the vast majority of the abilities in the game.

Limit Breaks were discussed as being pretty pointless because they disabled your normal attack command, thus making it where you have to waste the Limit on a weaker enemy, or waste MP on said weaker enemy in favor of saving it for a later battle. Not to mention the limits themselves getting to be pretty old-hat after the first few uses.

And the storyline is only "deep" and "complex" if you've never read any good books in your entire life. And speaking of which, FF7's storyline would only make a marginal paperback series in terms of quality--much like the DOOM novels and Aliens vs. Predator. Nowhere near the caliber of such greats as Dune or Lord of the Rings or The Neuromancer (sp? Been ages since I read that one).

Basically, FF7 is not all that damn good, nor is there that much replay value as the game was pretty damn linear throughout--sidequests included.

BOW TO ODIN!

WOW! I wasn't expecting so many replies! I can't believe people came up with so many good points about FFVII and I'm glad there are so many FFVII-lovers.

I don't think its the end of the world when someone doesn't like FF7 because its their opinion and they are entitled to their opinion just like FF7 fans but just because they like FF7 you bash them.But FF7 is a good game because of the graphics, the storyline, the fanbase shows how good it is.I liked the game because of the way you relate to the charachters It was really sad when Aeris died, I was drawn to the game because of the anie look it has

I don't think its the end of the world when someone doesn't like FF7 because its their opinion and they are entitled to their opinion just like FF7 fans but just because they like FF7 you bash them.But FF7 is a good game because of the graphics, the storyline, the fanbase shows how good it is.I liked the game because of the way you relate to the charachters It was really sad when Aeris died, I was drawn to the game because of the anie look it has

Just like everyone else you're not giving specific examples.

the fanbase shows how good it is.
I've already touched on this a few times. There isn't a huge fanbase with the game because it is good or not; It's because the game was marketed more than any in history.

Listen I don't need to give you a reason I like the game ok.None else has to either I just like the game ok?

Point missed yet again!

The issue isn't whether you like it or not. The issue is the quality of the game. No one has a problem with you liking it.

A game isn't intrinsically good or bad, its good or bad to somebody playing it, and whether or not the person backs their opinion up with reasons, their opinion is still subjective. Its meant to entertain, whether the game is mindless or not. It If you think its a bad game, it doesn't mean people who like it are stupid. What makes a game good or bad changes as you get older. Little kids think complicated movies are stupid and boring. As you grow older you are less able to immerse yourself in a fantasy world and find them foolish or boring. Things that you might not have noticed before might wreck the story for you later as you become older.

Actually, a game can be good or bad just like a movie, book, or piece of music can. Opinions are certainly subjective, but there are certain aspects of any such creation that can be accurately judged by an objective observer. These aspects can always be judged on the same scale and do not change no matter who plays the game or how they enjoy it.

And besides, no one's been calling people stupid for liking a game. Those of us who dislike the game respect the right of others to enjoy it. We merely point out ways in which the game is overrated.

On a subjective side, this game was good because it actually got me hooked.

However, the game "itself" is so-so. The translation from Jap to Eng was pretty dismal in some parts and with the materia system, even though I actually liked it, it does remove the unique abilities of the characters when you reach high levels. The possibility to soup up Barret to max magic stats is a sure sign.

Limit Breaks, well I personally didn't find it a problem.

Don't take it wrong, I LOVE the game but I do know its faults.

Gosh, this is just like Midtown Madness 2, another game I love. It has a very good concept but the gfx engine is crap and it has a LOT of crash spots, therefore the game "itself" is crap.

Damn... I read this thread a Final Fantasy VII lover but after I read it, I felt sorta scared. Scared of liking Final Fantasy.

I'm too scared to even attempt to post any kind of Pro Final Fantasy remarks.

Then I realized why. Because there's no way I can give you guys what you want. You're right. FF VII is a shitty game. I don't know why I like it. I just do.

You know, I hardly know the story behind Final Fantasy VII. Well, I know a little. I've played through the game quite a few times, but I was a little kid. I never payed any attention to any of the story. I just played the game. I didn't know what I was doing. I just kept playing.

I started playing through all my Final Fantasies again recently. Now that I'm older, I understand the story lines better and getting stoned really makes the game alot better. There's just something about that cheesy/kiddy fantasy world that just makes you wanna be a part of it. At least, that's how I get when I play it or whenever I'm thinking about it. It's kinda like a rediculous bedtime story or something that is fun to be a part of. Especially with these forums. I love to talk to other people about the game and I especially love it when we all agree that it's really awesome. Maybe it has to do with some kind of reassurance (sp) problem.

If anybody seriously wants to prove that FFVII doesn't have cardboard character, I'd love to see someone give descriptions of a character without using elements of the storyline.

FOR THE LOVE OF CHICKENS!! DON'T YOU THINK WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT PEOPLE LIKE SEPHIROTHS BROTHER THINK OF FINAL FANTASY VII. WE HEAR ENOUGH OF IT ALREADY YES, IT IS AN OK GAME, BUT MUST YOU BROWN NOSE IT ALL THE FLAMING TIME?? ITS BORING!! NO ONE CARES EXCEPT ALL YOU JESTERS. YOU COME UP WITH SOME STUPID POINT AND DON'T EVEN BACK IT UP. ONE OUNCE OF CRITISISM AND ALL YOU FFVII NUTS JUST BLOODY CRY LIKE LITTLE WOMEN WHO'VE LOST THEIR DUMMIES

I don't. Their opinions and/or facts about why the game (or a certain aspect of it), sucks don't change the fact that I like the game, still.

I think they should have remade FF VII on the PS2 platform with improved graphics and maybe some voice acting, but who doesn't?

FOR THE LOVE OF CHICKENS!!

Chickens eh? :coolegg:

Ok guyz...Well I love final fantasy VII because the plot is thick,(so original)and most of all every event is connected with an other,at the right time,the right place.That makes the game rolls right...Harmonic.(is that a word?Forgive my english,I am from Greece)The battle system,is interesting and flexible,the proper character is in the right place,and you know sometimes you can't explain what exactly you like.It just gives a sensation..that makes you believe...THIS IS THE GAME!

Consider this an outside observation of what is being said:

I believe he has just as much right to talk about why he doesn't like it as you have to talk about why you do. From what I've seen he does a much better job at backing up what he says than you do, which really gives him more of a reason to ask you what your goal is in constantly repeating the same thing that he has disproved over and over.

I'm not saying that it's a great sin or crime to dislike, hate, or loathe FFVII. All I'm saying is that there is a point when talking about one's extreme dislike in horrible ways stops being a valid, logical conversation and becomes desperate attempt to prove a point that was already made. or was it? You continue to dodge my question, and try to shut me down. Why? Might I actually be on to something? Is it just that you really don't have an answer? Why don't you try and prove how much better another Final Fantasy game is? Oh, and trust me, it was NOT the most marketed game ever. There have been bigger games out there. Granted, it WAS the biggest up until that point, but it is no more. To me, marketing didn't even touch me. When I first saw Ads for the game I thought it looked stupid. A few years, I randomly bought the game and loved it, not realizing what it was. Despite my initial negativity toward the game, it still ended up being my favorite game ever. I have since proceeded to play every other Final Fantasy. I enjoyed each one very much. However, none bring me into the story and addict me quite like VII. It's all a matter of opinion. No one seems to realize that, or care. So, no matter how all you FFVII haters bombard FFVII, at some point you're going to waste your time. Insulting over 7 million people, trying to convince them they're wrong, that there's a better way, it's just stupid. It's like the RIAA trying to sue all the people who download free music. It's stupid. It failed. As for you backing up statements better than me, give me one, ONE single quote of yours to prove it. You say you do, but do you really? Let's find out, shall we?

You continue to dodge my question, and try to shut me down. Why? Might I actually be on to something? Is it just that you really don't have an answer?</B>
I know you aren't talking to me, but what questions are you talking about? I honestly don't remember you asking us to answer anything or prove anything, and it's pretty obvious that you and most of the other Final Fantasy fans are just saying the same two or three statements over and over again, and then retreating to another dark corner of the FFVII forum.


<B>Why don't you try and prove how much better another Final Fantasy game is?</B>
Because this is the FFVII forum, and it doesn't belong here.


<B>Oh, and trust me, it was NOT the most marketed game ever. There have been bigger games out there. Granted, it WAS the biggest up until that point, but it is no more.</B>
My friend, FFVII is the most advertised and hyped game in history. Want additional proof?

Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
Final Fantasy VII: Before Crisis
Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core
Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerebrus

And why does Square keep going alphabetically with AC, BC, CC, and DC?


<B>It's all a matter of opinion. No one seems to realize that, or care.</B>
I'm sorry, but I fail to see anywhere in this thread, or the actual one, that states we don't care about your opinion. We may not care about what you have to say, because it is most likely going to end up like all the other baseless statements. But I for one respect your opinion, rather or not it's actually a cogent one.


<B>So, no matter how all you FFVII haters bombard FFVII, at some point you're going to waste your time. Insulting over 7 million people, trying to convince them they're wrong, that there's a better way, it's just stupid.</B>
You aren't helping the situation. You are trying to make the image of FFVII non-fans appear as if they totally hate and want to destroy the game, and all of it's followers. For once in your life, acknowledge that we are just simply not fans of the game. And what is this 7 million people number? If you are using that as evidence to try and say the game is great, then it's not that credible. And another thing, we aren't trying to convince you guys that we are wrong; Just simply stating our opinions, like you are.


<B>As for you backing up statements better than me, give me one, ONE single quote of yours to prove it. You say you do, but do you really? Let's find out, shall we?</B>
Once again, I know you aren't talking to me, but when you compare the credible statements/evidence/proof that FFVII non-fans have come up with against what you fans have come up with, there is just simply no comparison. We have bombarded you with a ton more information than you have provided. It's rather ignorant and hilarious if you still believe you guys have come up with better arguments than us.

Why don't you prove how much better another Final Fantasy game is
Because this is the FFVII forum and that doesn't belong here

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't writing a topic saying ff7 isn't a good game irrelevant to this forum

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't writing a topic saying ff7 isn't a good game irrelevant to this forum
I'll correct you, cause you are wrong.

In the FFVII forum, you can write about how much the game is good and not good. If you are saying that all comments that poke fun of the game don't belong here, then I'll say that every good comment about FFVII doesn't belong either.

EXCEPT ALL YOU JESTERS I take offence to that

The story and plots of Final Fantasy VII make it the best game ever. The characters are also to good to be true. I relish FFVII. It's the best game ever made.

I wish i could edit the previous post to say "imho" ;_;

The story and plots of Final Fantasy VII make it the best game ever. The characters are also to good to be true. I relish FFVII. It's the best game ever made.
Another pathetic example

Another pathetic example

HAH! I laugh at you! I am giddy with laughter! I am absolutely taken in by your foolishness! Haven't you anything better to say? If it's so pathetic, then you come up with something better! Oh? What's that? You say you can't? Gee, I never saw that one coming. None of you can proove a single thing you say. Yeah, see, you CAN'T provide a quote where some FF basher says something intelligible, because there aren't any. You say that's you can't proove another game is better, simply because it's not FFVII? Wow, what a suprise. How cowardly of you. What do you have to be afraid of? NOTHING, SO DO IT! And I again ask the question, what is your purpose of bashing FFVII? I don't care what the answer is, I just want to know. And I say things repeatedly because they are:
A) Ignored
B) That's all there is to say
C) Some people just don't quite grasp it the first time through
D) FFVII-bashers do the same thing. Face it, you do.
Oh, and Metal Gear Solid 2 was hyped like no game before it. Also, I saw WAAAAY more ads for MGS2 than FFVII, or ANY FF game, for that matter. I also respect your opinions, but some individuals here have (and I WILL find quotes of this) insulted FFVII fans, which is not simply stating a harmless opinion about a game. Also, if you're not trying to proove us wrong, then why do you so valiantly argue about how the game is so horrible? You have said my statements are baseless, but they are not. Everything I have said here is rooted in the fact that I hold a high opinion of FFVII, and there's nothing wrong with that. I have long ago accepted the fact that you aren't FFVII fans. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all. Actually, I never really thought you were FFVII fans in the first place. See, we don't care about what each other has to say. I'm going to post this, then someone else will find a way to try and disprove it all in some ridiculous, basless fashion, then someone else will argue that, and then someone will attack that, and then another advocate will attempt a smiting of FFVII, and so on and so on... Everyone is still missing the point that it's all about opinion. You've said with conviction and brutality that you hate FFVII. Okay. You've merely stated your opinion now. And we've stated ours, but you don't care about ours. You state your opnions, and when we reply to yours with ours you make some desperate, bassless attempt to disprove it. See, if you were merely stating your opinion, then all this would've been over by now. I'm not trying to say that you're wrong about the game. No one is, simply by the FACT that it's a matter of opinion. You do tend to be assholes about it, though. That's what I'm trying to say.


So very...very...tired...

I think the reason he is saying that is because all of the people that seem to be in favor of FFVII just say stuff like "FFVII IS a good game because of the awesome storyline and the characters are just so detailed and everything" without actually saying WHY they are like that Nabeshin. Maybe you wouldn't get laughed at so much if you would explain/prove what you are saying to be valid.

Haven't you anything better to say? If it's so pathetic, then you come up with something better! Oh? What's that? You say you can't? Gee, I never saw that one coming. None of you can proove a single thing you say.</B>
compared to the other thread, I have said basically nothing in this one. All my content is in that thread. And you want something better?

<A HREF="http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=276908&postcount=197">Here</A>

Now, that is what you would call a good argument against the game.


<B>You say that's you can't proove another game is better, simply because it's not FFVII? Wow, what a suprise. How cowardly of you. What do you have to be afraid of? NOTHING, SO DO IT!</B>
Are you that igorant to realize the point of this thread and the real one is not to prove a game is better than FFVII. It's to show what makes the game good or bad, and it's rather sad that you haven't realized that yet after all this.


<B>And I again ask the question, what is your purpose of bashing FFVII? I don't care what the answer is, I just want to know.</B>
You don't care what the answer is, but you still want to know? Right.

Anywho, after the first thread was made, I felt like adding my two cents and then some. It's not often that someone makes a negative thread about the game, so I figured I'd go ahead and put my thoughts in. That's the purpose of me "bashing" the game, because that is what the original thread was about; stuff that made FFVII bad.


<B>Also, if you're not trying to proove us wrong, then why do you so valiantly argue about how the game is so horrible? You have said my statements are baseless, but they are not.</B>
Don't you understand yet? I'm not trying to prove you wrong. I simply state my beliefs and try to win the debate that I'm right. That's what you do in threads like these; Both sides share their stories, and then they talk about it to see who can provide the better backup.


<B>You've said with conviction and brutality that you hate FFVII.</B>
Sorry, but you are wrong. I've never said with conviction and brutality that I hate the game.


<B>And we've stated ours, but you don't care about ours.</B>
Like I said, I respect people's opinons. But I honestly don't care what most FFVII fans have to say, because I've heard the same shit over and over and over again. And after a few years of it, you tend to just ignore them and ride them off. When I actually read a good post about good qualities about the game, then I'll pay attention to it.


<B>You do tend to be assholes about it, though. That's what I'm trying to say.</B>

Oh really? That <I>may</I> be true in some cases, because if you could actually see how sick and tired we all are of having all these FFVII fans praise the game so much without nothing to back that up with, then you might change your view about that.

Well, Smokey, you have your opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. If you think FFVII is just another stupid game, then I won't argue with you. Everyone has a right to state their beliefs. But I really don't like to be called pathetic. I don't mean to offend you in any way, but I think you should respect my opinion of FFVII as I respect yours. Smokey, I know that you're tired of hearing the same thing about FFVII over and over again and I know that it can get boring after a few years, but true fans always praise the game, and FFVII deserves that, to. And by the way, if you want to have some backup about the quality of FFVII, here I'll tell why it's a good game. Well, here we go. Final Fantasy VII is great because it makes the player realize some things. It makes him realize that not every story can have a happy end. FFVII shows us how reality looks like. In a lot of games and movies alike, the hero of the story loves someone so much that he sacrifices his own life to save the life of the beloved person to express this love, and sometimes he dies. What I'm trying to say is that FFVII gives us a feeling of reality - so many people in FFVII had their lives ruined, even the main characters of FFVII, Cloud, Aeris, Zack, Tifa and others. In most movies and games, everyone is happy in the end, and everything's fine. But FFVII is not like that. It teaches us the cruelness of the world and fate.

Master Nabeshin, you're a real defender of FFVII, I respect that. You're a cool guy. (by the way, thanks) ^_^

But I really don't like to be called pathetic.</B>
Uh I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure I've never called you or anyone else pathetic. I have said I think it's pathetic how some FFVII fans act, not how they are. It's a big difference. I just don't realize how you can think I called you pathetic for anything?


<B>Final Fantasy VII is great because it makes the player realize some things. It makes him realize that not every story can have a happy end. FFVII shows us how reality looks like. In a lot of games and movies alike, the hero of the story loves someone so much that he sacrifices his own life to save the life of the beloved person to express this love, and sometimes he dies. What I'm trying to say is that FFVII gives us a feeling of reality - so many people in FFVII had their lives ruined, even the main characters of FFVII, Cloud, Aeris, Zack, Tifa and others. In most movies and games, everyone is happy in the end, and everything's fine. But FFVII is not like that. It teaches us the cruelness of the world and fate.</B>
I have to say it, but I have no idea what you are talking about. You say there are a lot of games, the hero/main character sometimes sacrifices his life to save the one he loves? That's just wholly wrong, unless you can provide a good list of games that have this aspect.

And I refuse to accept FFVII is good because it makes you "realize some things".

Next please

I like the game because of its soundtrack.When I waqas on the world map for the first time it blew me away it was so great, and it still does.I liked the way the musicians put their emotions into the music.I also liked the charachters because you can relate to the characters, especially when Aeris died because, lets face it everyones going to lose someone close to them at one time in their life (but of course they wouldn't die like Aeis does)

Well, maybe you're right. There aren't that many examples, but there are a few, but I can't remeber right now. Sorry. Listen, I don't have aynthing against you or your opinion. We have different opinions and that's OK. I see that I can't convince you, so I won't even try. I think that FFVII is a graet game and you think it's stupid. Let's just leave it at that. I'm OK with that. Not everyone can have the same opinion about something. You're a cool guy. You say your opinion and stick to it. I like that. But FFVII is still a cool game in my opinion. ^_^

Well, maybe you're right. There aren't that many examples, but there are a few, but I can't remeber right now. Sorry. Listen, I don't have aynthing against you or your opinion. We have different opinions and that's OK. I see that I can't convince you, so I won't even try. I think that FFVII is a graet game and you think it's stupid. Let's just leave it at that. I'm OK with that. Not everyone can have the same opinion about something. You're a cool guy. You say your opinion and stick to it. I like that. But FFVII is still a cool game in my opinion. ^_^
I have only one thing to say...

Just wait for Prak.

Geez, put the pressure on me, will ya?

All I have to say on the matter by now is that this discussion is not about whether people like the game or not. It is about the game's quality, not peoples' impressions of it. And despite what some desperate people keep exclaiming, quality is not open to interpretation. Technical merits can easily be clearly defined and they form the basis of many of our arguments.

We've said many times before that we have no problem with people liking FFVII. We just have a problem with people giving it undue credit. It is not the greatest game ever made, even if it does happen to be your favorite.

And Master Nabeshin, we've proved almost every damn thing we've said. If you want anyone to buy your infantile line about us making stupid unprovable statements, then give an example of it. Come on, just one thing that we stated as fact and failed to back up. Or can you not back up your own ridiculous unprovable statements?

If you want to try debating the issue, come to the real thread. I'm leaving this one for the kiddies to play in.
Wow, thanks for coming to play, Prak. Change your mind? Oh, and yes, I will prove it. I choose my battles very carefully. I don't jump into meaningless arguments unless I can win.
But, I feel I must thank your for clarifying all this. If it is merely about the technical aspects of the game, then yes. The graphics do suck. No denying that. But, Super Mario Bros. had sucky graphics, and that sure didn't stop people from playing it. The quality of the music is a pain on the ears. MIDI music does that. However, the orchestrated versions show off the quality of the composition of the peices. The battle system's a bit rusty. There are better, more complex, yet easier to use battle systems today. But, show me a better system from before then, or even from the same day. Some of the translations were rough. So, technically speaking, yes, the game sucks by today's standards. But, by today's standards, the only ones that DON'T suck technically are FFX ( and X-2) and FFXI. So, if this is what all this is about, then okay. You were a bit unclear about that. See, if you had said all that from the beginning, then you wouldn't have looked like you were just unfairly bashing FFVII for no reason. If this is the way, then by your own statements, every Final Fantasy before X sucked. Okay, I'm fine with that. Now, I am very tired, and crashing from a Halloween candy sugar high. I must depart.

Again, your reasoning is flawed. Any given game's quality must be measured by the capabilities of the platform it appears on. And besides, technical merits go far deeper than graphics, sound, and battle systems. FFVII suffered from fundamental design flaws, which I have already clearly outlined. My complaints with the characters and story are also based on technical merit, or lack thereof.

Prak, you said thtat FFVII is not the greatest game ever made, and that's YOUR opinion, but MY opinion is that FFVII is the greatest game ever made.
Nobody said that everybody must think that FFVII is the best game of all. But as you said, wre're not talking about our impresions of FFVII, but the quality of the game. I agree on that. FFVII has flaws, and nobody said it was perfect. But, as Master Nabeshin said, you are bashing the game for no reason. The graphics may not be the best and there are translation mistakes and other flaws. But it's still a good game. Back then, it was an excelent game, but today's standards are very high and that's why FFVII sucks by today's standards. Still, it's an excellent game. Listen, why don't we just stop arguing and start respecting other's opinions. I think that would be the best.

You just completely ignored what I said. It isn't an issue of opinion. Nor is it a matter of comparing it to newer games. It is FACT that there are much better games out there than FFVII, even if it does happen to be your favorite. And I'm not just referring to newer games.

OK, i get the point. I agree that there are much better games. I didn't say FFVII was the best game in terms of graphics or such. But it's the best game for me. ^_^

MY opinion is that FFVII is the greatest game ever made.

I agree that there are much better games.
Wow, that didn't take long for you to make yourself look idiotic.

Also, you say that Prak is bashing the game for no reason. I'd hate to break it for you, but you said it yourself that FFVII is not a perfect game. So, when there are flaws in a game, the window of opportunity to bash the game for those flaws is immediately opened. If there was nothing wrong with the game whatsoever, then you could say we are bashing it for no reason. But that's not the case.

Also, Master Nabeshin, Prak asked you to tell us just one thing that we stated as fact and failed to back up. You say that you choose your battles carefully, but you won't even put up a fight when you have no material whatsoever.

When I said that there are much better games, I only meant that in terms of graphics and such. There are much better games with better graphics, but what I'm trying to say is that FFVII is greatest game FOR ME, regardless of graphics or other flaws that it has.

When I said that there are much better games, I only meant that in terms of graphics and such. There are much better games with better graphics, but what I'm trying to say is that FFVII is greatest game FOR ME, regardless of graphics or other flaws that it has.
Of graphics and such? What concepts are you talking about when you mean 'such'? And yes, there are plenty of games with better graphics than FFVII, and also a better storyline.

Well, when I say "such", I mean things like the battle system, or the storyline.
As you said, there are games with better stroylines than FFVII, I never said that FFVII has the best storyline of all time. Well, for me, FFVII does have the best storyline, but that's my opinion about FFVII, and nobody has to share that opinion with me.

As you said, there are games with better stroylines than FFVII, I never said that FFVII has the best storyline of all time. Well, for me, FFVII does have the best storyline, but that's my opinion about FFVII, and nobody has to share that opinion with me.
But I just don't see how someone can say something like...

FFVII <B>doesn't</B> have the best storyline, but IMO it does.

Well, I don't understand why someone can't say something like that. I don't know, I guess it's because in the begining of the game, almost nothing is clear, you don't understand the story and you just can't put it together. It was kinda mysterious and I guess I liked that. And still like.

Well, I don't understand why someone can't say something like that. I don't know, I guess it's because in the begining of the game, almost nothing is clear, you don't understand the story and you just can't put it together. It was kinda mysterious and I guess I liked that. And still like.
No, I mean you are basically saying that you think FFVII doesn't have the best this or that, but then you say that for you it's the best. It sounds like you are contradicting yourself when that happens. If it's the greatest something for you, then that means you think it's the greatest anyways.

Well, I know it sounds kinda weird, but FFVII doesn't have the best storyline. But I like it more than any other storyline for some reason...That's all the expalantion I can give you...

So it's your favorite, not the best. Is that what you're trying to say?

eah, that's exactly it, thanks Prak. I guess I have to work on the "understandliness" of my messages. LOL ^_^

Again, your reasoning is flawed. Any given game's quality must be measured by the capabilities of the platform it appears on. And besides, technical merits go far deeper than graphics, sound, and battle systems. FFVII suffered from fundamental design flaws, which I have already clearly outlined. My complaints with the characters and story are also based on technical merit, or lack thereof.



Uhhh..right. That's called a double standard, Prak. And double standards mean nothing. Besides, technical implies the level of technological capabilities of the subject. This includes just about anything but the story, which requires NO technology. So, just about the only thing much deeper than any of that is the story, which is not flawed at all. Everything flows together seamlessly (if you didn't get it, there's something wrong with you. Get a brainscan), and is much more orginal than a giant monster or sorcerer/ sorceress, a conquerer trying to take over the world. There's really no denying it. Those kind of tales have been around for hundreds of years. Just how many stories are there of a man killing a planet to become god? Not many, if any. Oh, and sorry, I've been gone the last few days. I found out that I had a life, and was unable to attend to trivial things, such as this website. :P Life taught me a few good things. Such as, everything on here is trivial, and doesn't matter. As the saying goes "Arguing on the Internet is like being in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded." Now stop pretending to be smart. You're not very convincing. :P

hahahahahaha... Way to go, Master Nabeshin. But I think it wasn't really nice to insult Prak the way you did. I mean, we're not arguing here, we're not enemies or something like that. We all just have different opinions and we talk about it. There's no sense in insulting someone.

Uhhh..right. That's called a double standard, Prak.

Really? How so?


Besides, technical implies the level of technological capabilities of the subject. This includes just about anything but the story, which requires NO technology.

Incorrect. Technical simply refers to those aspects that can be judged on a static scale. Stories also have technical merits, as any decent writer will tell you.


So, just about the only thing much deeper than any of that is the story, which is not flawed at all. Everything flows together seamlessly (if you didn't get it, there's something wrong with you. Get a brainscan), and is much more orginal than a giant monster or sorcerer/ sorceress, a conquerer trying to take over the world.

Everything flows together seamlessly, does it? That's a laugh. The ambiguities in the storyline are myriad, as instanced by Cloud's origins (Just where in the world did he come from? When did it happen? Why is he running loose if he was some kind of clone?) and his mental state (was he lying to everyone about being in SOLDIER or had he gone so delusional that he forgot the truth? The game never answers that and either possibility is awful from a continuity perspective because it doesn't fit the established character profile.).


There's really no denying it. Those kind of tales have been around for hundreds of years. Just how many stories are there of a man killing a planet to become god? Not many, if any.

What's your point. I never said I had problems with the basic premise. In fact, I've said on more than one occasion that it had a good concept, but was ruined by piss-poor execution.


Oh, and sorry, I've been gone the last few days. I found out that I had a life, and was unable to attend to trivial things, such as this website. :P Life taught me a few good things. Such as, everything on here is trivial, and doesn't matter.

That's nice. I wonder if there's a point though.


Now stop pretending to be smart. You're not very convincing. :P

Making things personal was a mistake. I've obviously gotten to you if you're resorting to insults. Can it be that you're having a hard time in countering me? Oh yes, I forgot. YOU'RE NOT! You haven't countered anything I've said. You've just carried right on with your blathering and never bothered with counterpoints.

And before you try to insult my intelligence, try jamming a spark plug in your ear. Maybe it'll make your neurons fire fast enough to wage a decent argument. As it stands, you've made the foolish mistake of coming to a battle of wits completely unarmed.

Too large a response to quote but sufficed to say, you've just been pwn'd

Well, Prak, Cloud was born in Nibelheim. As for SOLDIER, Cloud didn't make it into SOLDIER. And he's not a clone, either. The game answers all of these questions.

So, just about the only thing much deeper than any of that is the story, which is not flawed at all. Everything flows together seamlessly (if you didn't get it, there's something wrong with you. Get a brainscan)
You want to know why everything seems to flow seamlessly together? That's because the game hands you out the different dishes ON A SILVER PLATTER WITH A FULL DESCRIPTION OF THE FOOD! That's not a story flowing seamlessly together; that's just a story with no real complex issues, and everything about the storyline is told to you automatically.


Just how many stories are there of a man killing a planet to become god? Not many, if any.
How many stories are there of a plumber folding into many different shapes to collect Crystal Stars and open The Thousand-Year Door? Only one.

I mean please, you are saying that as if just because there <B>may</B> not be many stories similar to this, that it automatically is justified as a good one.


I found out that I had a life, and was unable to attend to trivial things, such as this website. :P Life taught me a few good things. Such as, everything on here is trivial, and doesn't matter. As the saying goes "Arguing on the Internet is like being in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded." Now stop pretending to be smart. You're not very convincing. :P
Shit, I was so desperately hoping that while you were away in your life, that you would be able to discover some reliable information about the game, and then come back and debate with us in a cogent manner.

hahahahahaha... Way to go, Master Nabeshin. But I think it wasn't really nice to insult Prak the way you did. I mean, we're not arguing here, we're not enemies or something like that. We all just have different opinions and we talk about it. There's no sense in insulting someone.

I never implied that I was smart, either. I'm participating in internet arguing, I'm equally retarded. I was also referring to Smokey, anyway. Oh, and Smokey, I was also sorta kinda hoping the same thing of you while I was away. Oh, and there is kinda sort the tiny complex issue of Cloud and Tifa's past. Yeah, that wasn't exactly handed over on a silver platter. Besides, having a story that you have to think about implies that the writers were just to lazy to cover up plotholes. Only philosophy is excluded from this, and Final Fantasy is not philosophical. Of course, now you're going to try and cover up this point by contradicting yourself and claiming that nothing fit together in the story, when you just said that it fit together all to easily.

Prak, a double standard is similar to hypocracy. You claim to hold one standard, until that standard becomes inconvinient. There isn't a single double standard that is justifiable. You double standard is that you claim that FFVII's technical aspects suck, while claiming that previous games have superior technical aspects while they clearly don't. You say that a game should be judged basically by the way it squeezes juice out of the system it's on. However, the fact that the technical aspects of ever Final Fantasy game before FFVII are inferior, and every (excluding GBA games) FF game after it is superior cannot be denied. I hold the standard (to ALL games) of the most recent techical cababilites of a game. This doesn't mean that a game is any less enjoyable, it merely means that the graphics and sounds are better on the next in the series. Now, since that is your argument, then the further back in the series you go, the suckier the technical aspects get. Now, like I've said, a storyline is NOT a technical aspect. Masterpiece stories have been written centuries, millenia ago. No technology is involved in a story.

Pardon me for starting at the end of your post, but I feel this bears addressing first. Technical is NOT a synonym for technological. Technical, as I explained in my last post, refers to merits that can be judged on a static scale. All written works contain technical merits. In other words, I refer to things like grammar, continuity, pacing, etc. They are aspects of writing that continue to be held to the same standards regardless of the passage of time.

If you want to prove that I have a double standard, then you'll have to provide evidence of me being inconsistent. I may hold different standards than you, but they are rock-solid. As long as I stay consistent, you cannot possibly call me a hypicrite and expect it to stick. The only way you can argue against that is to show where I've said that an older game is of lesser quality just because it isn't new. That would be a real double standard.

if anyone is confused about the story, I have a link for ya:

http://www.kuponut.com/index.php?ilogo.html&ilinks.html&http://www.kuponut.com/games/ff7/game_timeline.html

Oh, and there is kinda sort the tiny complex issue of Cloud and Tifa's past. Yeah, that wasn't exactly handed over on a silver platter. Besides, having a story that you have to think about implies that the writers were just to lazy to cover up plotholes. Only philosophy is excluded from this, and Final Fantasy is not philosophical. Of course, now you're going to try and cover up this point by contradicting yourself and claiming that nothing fit together in the story, when you just said that it fit together all to easily.
Sorry, but I'm not going to do that. I have said all along that the storyline is handed to you up-close and personal. You basically don't have to do anything extra to advance the storyline, and you basically don't have to go hunting around from this town to the next to find out a valuable piece of information to help you in the game. And no, just because a story makes you think about it, doesn't mean that the writers were too lazy to cover up plotholes. The storyline of FFVII is handed to you, that's it. No hunting around, no searching a building or talking to villagers. You go to destination A, and then you are told to go to destination B. It goes on and on like that throughout the game. There is nothing complex about it, and the writers did do a pretty pathetic job of piecing together the whole 'Cloud & Tifa past' thing, Zach's past, Aeris & Zach, etc. It's like they dangled the bait for you, and then quickly pulled the line away so that 7 years later, you still can't get the bait. You see the bait, but you never get it.

Oooooo, nice one, prak, I might almost consider that.

Bah, nice try, Smokey. Sorry, but as a writer, and among many people who write (some of them professionally), flowing stories, whether you "have to hunt" (what the hell does that have to do with any of it anyway? Everyone knows that having to search for the next phase of the game is merely a cheap way to extend a cheap story. A perfect example of this is The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Those huge oceans were uneccisary.), or not is better than one that has gaps and periods of time in the story where NOTHING happens. You'll notice that this does not happen in FFVII. The story constantly moves, and the only time it doesn't is when there are EXTRAS.

Sorry, but as a writer, and among many people who write (some of them professionally),
I'm sorry, but you are no way a writer. Just because you know how to type doesn't make you a writer; A writer is someone who actually has great skills in tearing a game apart piece by piece to describe what makes it good and/or bad. Some excellent examples of writers here are mrmonkeyman and Prak, and I'm not too shabby myself.


Everyone knows that having to search for the next phase of the game is merely a cheap way to extend a cheap story.
That's one of the most retarded statements I've read in a long time. So I take it that every single game that has you search around a little is only doing so, just for the sole purpose of extending the cheap storyline? I'm sorry, but you are wholly wrong. I'll just give a quick example to prove you wrong; Chrono Trigger.


A perfect example of this is The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Those huge oceans were uneccisary.), or not is better than one that has gaps and periods of time in the story where NOTHING happens. You'll notice that this does not happen in FFVII. The story constantly moves, and the only time it doesn't is when there are EXTRAS.
Why the fuck do you keep trying to back out of this? Now you bring WW into account? That's a totally different game, and really has nothing to do with the original point that Prak and I are trying to get you to do. Time after time after time, you have failed to prove anything and back it up. Yes, it is true. And whatever 'evidence' you have stated has been terrible, at best. If you really want to make yourself look like more of a moron, then just demand that I back up this statement, and I will personally go through all the posts you have made in this thread, and count all the times someone has asked or told you to back something up, and then you fail to do so.

Just how many stories are there of a man killing a planet to become god?

Oh, just Legend of Legaia, Legend of Dragoon, Star Ocean: The Second Story, Legacy of Kain - all four of the games starting with Blood Omen, hrm... the list goes on for a good while.

I like 7.
1. The focus of the game shifts, firstly you're just terrorists blowing up reactors saying whopee the planets saved, then suddenly a face from the past re-emerges and just blowing up reactors won't make a damn bit of difference.

2. how many games have a bad guy cutting down a beloved character right in the heros face!, i cant name many games that could be so beautifully brutal.

3. the characters are so different from each other ( in FF8 its oh look we're all Seed members lets go get the bad guy ( except Rinoa who isnt a seed)) . Each character in 7 had a different but totaly acceptable reason for fighting.

4. Even the badguys were plausable (mostly) The Turks fitted in with Shinra, Jenova was around over 2000 years ago ( so why not make an appearence), Weapon was designed to restore lifesteam energy to the planet ( by eliminating as much life as possibe). I cant really comment on things like bottomswell or Palmer, even Rapps and Apps need a stretch of imagination

5. erm cant think of a fith point but i will

I like 7.
1. The focus of the game shifts, firstly you're just terrorists blowing up reactors saying whopee the planets saved, then suddenly a face from the past re-emerges and just blowing up reactors won't make a damn bit of difference.

2. how many games have a bad guy cutting down a beloved character right in the heros face!, i cant name many games that could be so beautifully brutal.

3. the characters are so different from each other ( in FF8 its oh look we're all Seed members lets go get the bad guy ( except Rinoa who isnt a seed)) . Each character in 7 had a different but totaly acceptable reason for fighting.

4. Even the badguys were plausable (mostly) The Turks fitted in with Shinra, Jenova was around over 2000 years ago ( so why not make an appearence), Weapon was designed to restore lifesteam energy to the planet ( by eliminating as much life as possibe). I cant really comment on things like bottomswell or Palmer, even Rapps and Apps need a stretch of imagination

5. erm cant think of a fith point but i will

Yes, the characters really come to life in FFVII, and they are mostly victims of Shinra's destruction (experiments, mako reactors, destroying towns and lives of other people).

I usually don't like the bad guys, but I kinda like Rufus, and even Sephiroth. Even some members of the Turks. They are all bad guys, but I really like them. I like Reno, too.

It was a great because of the story line. The story line has been the best out of all FF's

It was a great because of the story line. The story line has been the best out of all FF's

Yes, this is true. I thin that the storyline was brilliant. However, the storyline has a few holes, but hey, nothing is perfect.

In all the other FF well 8-X-2 the main guy/girl gets their love and thats not a bad thing but its done to much.
In FF7 Clouds love dies its just a better story line and FF7 was the first FF I played sc I have to be loyal.

Oh, just Legend of Legaia, Legend of Dragoon, Star Ocean: The Second Story, Legacy of Kain - all four of the games starting with Blood Omen, hrm... the list goes on for a good while.

Yeah, but those ALL came after FFVII, f00. Suck on that.

Wow, I've been gone a while. My life seems to be happening all week now. No time for fun ;_;. Well, glad to see this thread is going quite nicely.

Well, glad to see this thread is going quite nicely.

me too!

Yeah, but those ALL came after FFVII, f00. Suck on that.

Incorrect. Blood Omen was released on the same day FFVII came out in Japan.

I would like to make one point, the story FF seven develops as the game goes on, where as in earlier FF games the story is pretty much given to you at the start of the game, with developements thrown in to try and hold the players attention

And? Even if I don't dispute what you said about the previous games, what does that have to do with anything?

By the way, I was in error when I said Blood Omen was released at the same time as FFVII. Bad source. It was actually released several months before FFVII, in mid 1996.

some people are saying that 7 had a weak or confusing story line behind it and that earlier and other games had a better story. so thats why i made the post

But you're blurring the lines between the story and the way it's presented. They're not one and the same.

hmm. yeah i conceed your point.

as for Blood Omen before FF7, yes true, but FF7 had been delayed several times due to various problems, or so i've heard... I'll try and confirm this though

There's no need. It's irrelevant to the issue at hand. I only posted that to counter Master Nabeshin's claim that FFVII came before all those games that Odin listed. The length of FFVII's development cycle is of no importance at all in this situation.

Okay, you know why FF7 isn't a good game? Because people survived.

I would have much preferred it if the ending had left without a shadow of a doubt that Holy had obliterated all but the most basic of life forms and that everything was starting over.

My mistake. I ,too had a bad source. Never really played Blood Omen. bet it's not as good as FFVII, anyway. :p

Well, Odin, you're seven years too late to complain about it. Besides, there is an ending video that shows that Holy allowed life to continue. Now, did it obliterate humans? We don't know. Not until Advent Children happened, anyway.

Never really played Blood Omen. bet it's not as good as FFVII, anyway. :p

Blasphemy! I demand blood atonement!

sadly Smokeys right, bringing other RPGs into this discussion does not validate whether FF7 is a good game or not.

Prak you are half right, the relevance of finding out if FF7 would have been launched before Blood Omen would not prove if 7 was a good game, however it would show that the story had been developed for 7 before Bl.Om.

AS or opinions of FF7, they can go either way, some could like, some could hate, baseless hating is (imo) just as counter productive as baseless liking. I have stated, earlier, my reasons for liking FF7 and i hope i have backed them up with suitable evidence, if not i will ladly return to this thread to defend my reasoning

im on this threads side...i love ff7........but there are parts about it that were iffy

I dispise FFVII now...it's so boring!

have any of u guys, & this is a stupid Q, but have u been to the freakin ff7, y it's a bad game forum, they totally shoot ff7 down in there, it's crazy.

have any of u guys, & this is a stupid Q, but have u been to the freakin ff7, y it's a bad game forum, they totally shoot ff7 down in there, it's crazy.
No, you are crazy. Oh yes I have been there and we have good reasons for why FFVII sucks. Sorry for the confusion if there was any.

This game i thinked kicked ass. The characters were well developed and had emotions and were like people you might meet out in everyday life and we all came to know them as if they were real people we had known forever. The summons were awesome the battle system was sweet and there was SOO much to do that if you got bored doing one thing you could go do something else equally as fun and challanging. The music was also perfect for every part it got you pumpedup and ready for battles and got youn emotional during ceratin scenes. And the storyline and plot was great and drew you in to it and made you feel close to everyone so that when things happened to them you felt just like they did (ex: Aeris' Death). And those who say the story line and characters suck i think its just becuase they cant expand their minds enought to understand it or are just complaining to have something to complain about in the game b/c they're in denial about how a game could be so good. And another thing if the game is so bad then why are there so many moer things that have come out of this Final Fantasy than any other and why did people consider it the best game ever made when it came out and why do people who have never played Final Fantasy VII or any other at least know something about this one and what Final Fantasy is becuase of 7???????

This game i thinked kicked ass. The characters were well developed and had emotions and were like people you might meet out in everyday life and we all came to know them as if they were real people we had known forever. The summons were awesome the battle system was sweet and there was SOO much to do that if you got bored doing one thing you could go do something else equally as fun and challanging. The music was also perfect for every part it got you pumpedup and ready for battles and got youn emotional during ceratin scenes. And the storyline and plot was great and drew you in to it and made you feel close to everyone so that when things happened to them you felt just like they did (ex: Aeris' Death). And those who say the story line and characters suck i think its just becuase they cant expand their minds enought to understand it or are just complaining to have something to complain about in the game b/c they're in denial about how a game could be so good. And another thing if the game is so bad then why are there so many moer things that have come out of this Final Fantasy than any other and why did people consider it the best game ever made when it came out and why do people who have never played Final Fantasy VII or any other at least know something about this one and what Final Fantasy is becuase of 7???????
Square Enix is milking the cash cow you call Final Fantasy VII for all it's worth...If Yuffie was in a game they made then I might buy it cause Yuffie's the only character I have respect for anymore...

And the only reason it works so well and better than the others is becuase of how good of a game it was and how everyone loved it and how we all want to know more about what happened next.do you think for one minute if the game sucked as bad as you guys claim it would sell so many things so welll???

People are ignorant, that's why it sells...I'll even admit that for a long time I liked Final Fantasy VII, but then I came to this site and saw this thread and said to myself, they are right. Now I hate and dispise the game for all the right reasons...

And those reasons are???????

and chorns can i ask why u only have respect for yuffie??....vincents cool to

And those reasons are???????
Well first of all, it's too easy, it's boring after awhile...materia gets stale after awhile and the storyline is sort of retarded...the characters get boring and stale...(except Yuffie). Yeah, those reasons...


and chorns can i ask why u only have respect for yuffie??....vincents cool to
Yuffie is a ninja, nuff said.

People are ignorant, that's why it sells...I'll even admit that for a long time I liked Final Fantasy VII, but then I came to this site and saw this thread and said to myself, they are right. Now I hate and dispise the game for all the right reasons...


pretty much. thats like saying Britney spears is talented and one of the best singers ever because she sold a lot of albums. I did enjoy VII for the most part, but most of the arguments defending it sound like the arguments of a 12 yr old

Omnislash, your totally freakin right, Chorns seems like he wants to be old fashioned if you ask me, I mean he acts as though VII is a heretic to the series which it is certaintly is not. I had posted something in the "Why it's a bad game" forum, I had made a comment which at the moment could have been an exaggeration, but. I said that Final Fantasy VII was the Nirvana of the series, and I think people in that forum are mad at me now.

Omnislash, your totally freakin right, Chorns seems like he wants to be old fashioned if you ask me, I mean he acts as though VII is a heretic to the series which it is certaintly is not. I had posted something in the "Why it's a bad game" forum, I had made a comment which at the moment could have been an exaggeration, but. I said that Final Fantasy VII was the Nirvana of the series, and I think people in that forum are mad at me now.

i wasn't going against him. I was saying the people defending the game were the ones that tend to sound like idiots most of the time

Chorns your reasons are all wrong the stroyline is great the characters are good and well developed and have personality and emotion and they go through changes thorughout the game unlike in X where they stay the same throughout the entire game and it is NOT EASY!!! Emerald and Ruby weapon are harder than hell to beat and the other side quests are hard too or maybe you didnt do those cuz ur a weak pussy in fact the only part thats easy is the last boss and tifa, cloud and aeris are 10X better than yuffie cuz yuffie is just an annoying kid ninja who isnt that good cuz i got all my chars to lvl 99 and cloud and tifa were soo much better than her.

To me It sounds like Chorns can't make up his own mind



I came to this site and saw this thread and said to myself, they are right. Now I hate and dispise the game for all the right reasons...

I've read this thread, and I understand what has been said, but I still like and enjoy the game, nothing anyone could say will make me change that...

i like the game,

the story, the characters, *the chocobos* , how they use magic *materia*, its not only one person using it. its pretty cool

The one good thing about the game was the music...to me the characters were average(except for Yuffie), about as good as a decent(I said decent, not good) anime like AD Police, the battle system was nothing new, materia was too simple, the hard bosses were easy(yes the american weapons)...

YUFFIE IS A LITTLE BITCHY THIEF WHO SUX COMPARED TO CLOUD TIFA AND AERIS AND THE BATTLE SYSTEM IS DIFFERENT FROM THE PREVIOUS ONES HELLO THIS WAS THE FIRST ONE TO HAVE LIMIT BREAKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

FFVI had limit breaks, they were actually cool too...I meant the ATB part was the same and has been the same since FFIV.

6 didnt hjave limit breaks im sorry but it says in the 7 instruction manuel and guide book "limit breaks are a new concept in final fantasy 7 where your characters can go beyond there normal damage copacity and deal powerful attacks" what six had were powerful attacks that could only be used at certain battles if i remember correctly

6 didnt hjave limit breaks im sorry but it says in the 7 instruction manuel and guide book "limit breaks are a new concept in final fantasy 7 where your characters can go beyond there normal damage copacity and deal powerful attacks" what six had were powerful attacks that could only be used at certain battles if i remember correctly
I guess you didn't consider Back Blade, Mirager, MoogleRush, Red Card, Riot Blade, RoyalShock, SabreSoul, ShadowFang, Spin Edge, Star Prism, TigerBreak, or X-Meteo limits...I did, they were all attacks that were only executed when the character was in a near fatal state for HP...That's what a limit is right?

but it didnt it only work at certain times and not all the time

but it didnt it only work at certain times and not all the time
Yeah, but, so what? I still consider those attacks limits...

there not true limit breaks then cuz you dont have the potential to do them in any battle at anytime it just like omnislash in the end even if you dont have it the game is programmed to have u use it

no, they have the potential to be seen anytime your HP is really low...any battle...

YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
but it didnt it only work at certain times and not all the time

Quote
Originally Posted by Chorns
Yeah, but, so what? I still consider those attacks limits...

YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
but it didnt it only work at certain times and not all the time

Quote
Originally Posted by Chorns
Yeah, but, so what? I still consider those attacks limits...
I must not have read your post correctly or something...

Trekkieboy, I just wanna say before I start shredding your post that you need to learn to write coherent sentences. I had to wade through it just to understand what you were saying with your lack of paragraphs, poor punctuation, and questionable spelling.


This game i thinked kicked ass. The characters were well developed and had emotions and were like people you might meet out in everyday life and we all came to know them as if they were real people we had known forever.

I covered this before. The characters were all one dimensional, covering every archetype in the book, but not expanding on any of them.


The summons were awesome

How so? They looked cool, you mean? That hardly makes it a great game, just a flashy one. They were no better than any summons before or since.


the battle system was sweet

The battle system was clumsy and unrefined.


and there was SOO much to do that if you got bored doing one thing you could go do something else equally as fun and challanging.

So what? Practically all RPGs have side quests.


The music was also perfect for every part it got you pumpedup and ready for battles and got youn emotional during ceratin scenes.

Whatever. The music was okay, but I don't feel it was exceptional.


And the storyline and plot was great and drew you in to it and made you feel close to everyone so that when things happened to them you felt just like they did (ex: Aeris' Death).

The storyline fell apart after the first disc. I thought it was pretty good until then. After that, there were very few notable occurences and far too much remained unresolved. In other cases, the story seemed to contradict itself. And don't say it's good because it lets you make up your own mind or some crap like that. That's bad writing. A decently written story would put all the information in there, even if some of it was hidden.


And those who say the story line and characters suck i think its just becuase they cant expand their minds enought to understand it or are just complaining to have something to complain about in the game b/c they're in denial about how a game could be so good.

Or maybe it's because it's so far beneath our minds. A child could easily understand everything that happened in that game, as well as the thoughts and motivations of the characters.


And another thing if the game is so bad then why are there so many moer things that have come out of this Final Fantasy than any other and why did people consider it the best game ever made when it came out and why do people who have never played Final Fantasy VII or any other at least know something about this one and what Final Fantasy is becuase of 7???????

Its popularity partly comes from marketing. It was the most heavily marketed game ever at the time. It was extremely easy, so people were able to play through it quickly. And then there's the fact that many people let their own opinions be predetermined by the opinions of their peers. When a large number of kids decided Final Fantasy VII was cool, others naturally followed suit in singing its praises.

By the way, anyone who wants is welcome to take up the argument. I can do this forever. And chorns and I are just the first wave, so don't expect it to be easy.

HAHA Prak u just tore him apart.....


while sum of the stuff prak says is true i still really enjoyed the game, even if the materia system wasnt the best or the battle system was clumy, the only thing i really TRULY liked about it was the story and music.....and also sephiroth

he looks cool


I said that Final Fantasy VII was the Nirvana of the series, and I think people in that forum are mad at me now.



I think that was a bit of an overstatement to

but i also think Nirvana suck ass and have HORRIBLE music....but thats just me.....i guess im to metal to really enjoy Nirvana anymore....but yah FF7 wasnt the nirvana of the FF series i would say it was definately a groundbreaker because its the first "fully 3D" FF but there were better

Nirvana isn't just a band, you know...

I have a feeling it was meant in another context.

well Nick wut I meant, was exactly wut u typed, groundbreaker. I never said Nirvana was great but it began somethin kinda new, as far as innovation & such. but outa curiousity wut bands do u listen to?

yah yah yah dont go on about how revolutionary nirvana were cause it WASNT jsut them u have to think about the pure underground detroit grunge scene at the time......if it wasnt for that and the underground and local grunge scenes everywhere else i doubt nirvana would have had much of an impact on the music world

and at the moment im into the hardcore scene right now.....Converge, Terror, Agony Scene, etc....

but usually im either listening to Cradle of Filth, Children of Bodom, Stratovarius, Blind Guardian, or sum other stuff....depends really.....if u ask me that same question in 2 weeks time ill probley give u a different answer

well concidering there were all I heard about as far as the whole music thing, I used em as a example. I constantly hear about them bein all revolutionary as U put it. thats the only reason I used it was I thought people would know wut I meant. I am actually from detroit & music like Nirvana's genre holds no interest with me, dispite wut u most obviously think. I like different types. I'll admit though, I don't care for rap or hip hop, or freakin pop music bullshit like Britany fuckin spears, wut a whore. But jus to let you know I did admit that wut I said was an overstatement.Just to refresh ur memory.

yah even i used to be into nirvana alot actually to tell you the truth.....but then i opened up to new music and now i think there music and lyrics suck

and there getting WAY to trendy lately around my school....i see little poser kids whereing "Nevermind" t-shirts and shit like that

same here man

What music do u listen to SlavicWolfram?

I like metal, but don't ask what bands casue I haven't listened to anything new in a long time, Rock most definitely. I'm a chick so don't penalize me for liking softer music than rock, but I like stuff along classical music too, I hate rap & hip hop.Can't stand it, there is no point to it.

I'll listen to oldies too

I love classical music

i enjoy listening to orchestra's

but my true nature is Metal ♥
im metal to the core

but still...Classical has a place in my heart



♥Classical♥

Totally man

anyway we are straying off topic to much

this game is fun

♥FF7♥

yes, I have experienced much enjoyment in these RPG's, this one inparticular

Final Fantasy 7 is good, cuz wasn't it the first FF on the psx?

yeah FF7 was the first FF for the Playstation.

yes it was and the summons were better than the previous ones cuz there were so many more of them there about 15 of them in this one. And the characters did go through changes Prak, Cloud for example starts off just helping Barret and then he meets Aeris and falls inlove with her. His motive then becomes to protect her and then becomes getting his revenge for her death and then turns to him finding the truth about his past and finally becomes to save the world and to avenge Aeris. He evolves from this ex. soilder who only does things for cash to a caring person who will do anything for the planet and humanity. If thats not character change and development then i dont know what is.

By the way I FAIL ENGLISH SO SHUT THE F*%# UP

lol trekkie, by the way how old are you, you don't have additional info regarding your bio. But to lean towards topic, I agree. with the transformation & whatnot, the summons in my opinion were good. My fav. & I think others would agree, was Knights of the Round.

I'm 16 and a junior at State College Area High School

Actually there were alot more summons in FFVI, to be exact, there were 27 of them, so no, FFVII didn't have the most summons.

You really like FF6 huh, lol

yes it was and the summons were better than the previous ones cuz there were so many more of them there about 15 of them in this one. And the characters did go through changes Prak, Cloud for example starts off just helping Barret and then he meets Aeris and falls inlove with her. His motive then becomes to protect her and then becomes getting his revenge for her death and then turns to him finding the truth about his past and finally becomes to save the world and to avenge Aeris. He evolves from this ex. soilder who only does things for cash to a caring person who will do anything for the planet and humanity. If thats not character change and development then i dont know what is.

By the way I FAIL ENGLISH SO SHUT THE F*%# UP

FFVI had like 30 summons u goon

You really like FF6 huh, lol
Yeah...one of the best RPGs ever...

i haven't played ff6 yet, but i think ff7 was good not for the summons, but i think the story was awesome *i din't say that yet....did i??*

i haven't played ff6 yet, but i think ff7 was good not for the summons, but i think the story was awesome *i din't say that yet....did i??*
as Prak said, a child would be able to understand the simple concept of the story.

heh..the music was good in ff7 too......there were some bad things *like the grafix, but i mean it was only on the psx*

i think you and prak diss and bitch about ff7 just to have something to diss and bitch about and so you can stick out and be different from everyone else and to draw attention to yourself. And the story is great just becuase its easy to understand doesnt mean it sucks and the characters motives actually change unlike that of others such as FFX.

Final Fantasy 7 is good, cuz wasn't it the first FF on the psx?

so that makes its a good game?

I notice you only focus on one character, which can't really prove anything. Still, I'll indulge you.


And the characters did go through changes Prak, Cloud for example starts off just helping Barret and then he meets Aeris and falls inlove with her. His motive then becomes to protect her and then becomes getting his revenge for her death

At the beginning, you don't know anything at all about the character, so there's no basis for saying he changes after meeting Aerith, especially since that happened so early in the game. And motives are not the same thing as personality development, so they represent no significant change in the character.


and then turns to him finding the truth about his past

That was forced on the player in a completely awkward way. It had nothing to do with the character searching for his own past. Instead, they dragged it out in a pure exposition piece that was way too long, too easy, and too boring.


and finally becomes to save the world and to avenge Aeris.

Woo-frickin-hoo. That's par for the course, buddy. Everyone runs off in the end to save the world and avenge all the wrongs done by the villain.


He evolves from this ex. soilder who only does things for cash to a caring person who will do anything for the planet and humanity.

Did he just do things for cash? How would you know? You know next to nothing of the character's motives before that point.


If thats not character change and development then i dont know what is.

Then you don't know. It isn't character development. It's merely basic (very basic) plot advancement.


By the way I FAIL ENGLISH SO SHUT THE F*%# UP

Am I supposed to tip-toe around your deficiencies because you can't be bothered to open a book and learn the language? I think not.


i think you and prak diss and bitch about ff7 just to have something to diss and bitch about and so you can stick out and be different from everyone else and to draw attention to yourself.

Try pulling your head out of your ass and you might notice that a lot of people around here despise FFVII. Personally, I don't hate it. I think it's mediocre at best, but not worthy of hatred. I'll even be the first to admit that it had the potential to be really good. What I can't stand are the rabid obsessive fans who think that saying anything negative about FFVII is akin to pissing on their bible.


And the story is great just becuase its easy to understand doesnt mean it sucks

The story is basic, but even worse, it's incomplete. Everybody knows it. Only fools would deny it. Even FFVII's most die-hard fans admit it. And being easy to understand isn't necessarily a fault, but it also isn't something to be lauded. A simplistic plot is a hallmark of sub-par story crafting.


and the characters motives actually change unlike that of others such as FFX.

Oh yeah sure... Like Tidus' motives changing from defeating Sin and going home to keeping Yuna safe never happened. Like Wakka never renounced Yevon and started accepting the Al Bhed. And of course Lulu must not have conquered her inner demons from her past pilgrimages, by your reasoning.

Every character in FFX had their own distinct story that progressed throughout the game. Their personalities changed to reflect their experiences as well. That's something FFVII lacked. Those characters' personalities never changed, no matter what happened. Even if their motives changed, that's just a plot device to keep the story going forward. And the fact is that they all had the same reason for going on because the writers were too lazy to give them distinctions.

so that makes its a good game?
well not just that. but i was only asking.

Please no one diss FF7 the best game ever, ever, ever. :-(

i think you signed your sentence here. saying that without suportive facts... not good.

Ive just had to sat to so many people so many times how good FF7 is im getting bord of it.Well not that bored.
Firstly i think the materia system is the best system there was. Junction just peed me off.
All the little things like your airship, Weopon being awoken and you have the choice to try to take the suckers down. Fort condor was great fun as im a major fan of RTS.
Lastly all the hidden things like knights of the round table etc.

and all the million mini games. i love playing at gold saucer.

HELLO PRAK in the begining cloud wasnt helping barret and tifa out of the goodness of his heart it was for money the only reason he stayed on long enough to meet aeris was cuz they offered him more. BTW the only reason i focused on one character is becuase im lazy and dont want to take the time to go into a deep analysis of all 9 characters.

Secondly in X tidus is just lets get to zanarkand and beat sin but wait yunas gonna die i have to stop that and thats all he goes through which is there the entire time. And wakka barly sticks his foot out of the door when it comes to dispising yevon.

Thirdly theres a lot of people who hate you and agree with me and a lot og people just agree with you and dont speak their minds is cuz ur a stubborn jackass who wont except anyone elses opinion but ur own and if 7 sucks so much then why do people vote it as the best most of the time and yes some are becuase they just jumped on the bandwagon but a lot are becuase it is a great game and people love it, you just have BAD TASTE!!!!!!!!!

Finally the only part of the story thats incomplete is the end cuz its a cliffhanger but whats so bad about that some of the greatest movies and books end in cliffhangers and if it sucked so much people wouldnt care to see what happened nest they would just say i dont give a flying fuck but they want to know what happened next in the story becuase its sooo good they want to know do cloud and tifa get together, doe aeris come back, what happened to midgar, was sephiroth really destroyed.

On a closing note FF7 was a great game its story and plot are great becuase they have four elements that make any game, movie, or book great: Drama, Comedy, Love, and Action. And finally Prak if youve got nothing good to say then shut your fucking mouth and dont say anything cuz this thread and forum is for those who praise the game and love it and want to talk about it and swap info and strategies not for people to insult and make fun those who love it people should be happy about the game and for loving it not be ashamed for it and be attacked cuz of it just cuz you dont like it and want to change billions of peoples opinion to match your own.

ffvii was the single gr8test game ever to hit the videogaming world, in the future it will be studied like Mark Twain and Shakespeare, anybody who disagrees is wrong, like that dude, what was his name, Prick, yeah, his arguments wasnt even that good, he could at least come up wit some better points instead of tryin to contradict the obvious

You mean Prak and yes he does seem to contradict the obvious and just says the same thing over and over without depth or example.

You mean Prak and yes he does seem to contradict the obvious and just says the same thing over and over without depth or example.

no, i mean Prick

HELLO PRAK in the begining cloud wasnt helping barret and tifa out of the goodness of his heart it was for money the only reason he stayed on long enough to meet aeris was cuz they offered him more. BTW the only reason i focused on one character is becuase im lazy and dont want to take the time to go into a deep analysis of all 9 characters.

You know nothing about him in the beginning. Cloud is the angsty keep his feelings to himself character. The whole "just for the money thing" could just as easily be a facade to cover him. you dont know, because you know nothing about him in the beginning, and theres nothing to really point either way.


Secondly in X tidus is just lets get to zanarkand and beat sin but wait yunas gonna die i have to stop that and thats all he goes through which is there the entire time. And wakka barly sticks his foot out of the door when it comes to dispising yevon.

Tidus just kinda started off as a confused kid trying to get home. He has more of a gradual change in his motive as the game continues, once he learns of what sin is and about Yuna dying and all. Wakka, well. If you grew up a hardcore christian and believe all the teachings of the church and everything very strongly, and then one day, you started to learn that everything about the religion you believed so strongly in is nothing but a lie, you'd be a little hesitant to renounce it as well. becuase lets face it, if you live ur whole life believing that strongly in something, regardless of the facts you still want to hold on to that and believe that its still true and not just all some big lie.


Thirdly theres a lot of people who hate you and agree with me and a lot og people just agree with you and dont speak their minds is cuz ur a stubborn jackass who wont except anyone elses opinion but ur own and if 7 sucks so much then why do people vote it as the best most of the time and yes some are becuase they just jumped on the bandwagon but a lot are becuase it is a great game and people love it, you just have BAD TASTE!!!!!!!!!

of course people hate him, this is the FFVII forum, and almost every VII fan here seems to like to believe it is a perfect game and the greatest game ever made, so prak must be the devil for he speaks in a negative way over our god (FFVII). I enjoyed playing VII. But dam, i take it for what it is, a decent rpg,the greatest ever? no. but with an easy enough to understand battle system and storyline and thats that, I dont sit here and try to put the game on some rediculous pedastool. and the reason he wont except your opinion? well from what i've seen it goes something like this:

fanboy-OMG FFVII RULZ!!!! OMG!!!
prak-no its not that great, why do you think it is
fanoby-BECAUSE OMG ITS THE GREATEST EVER!!I IF U DOPNT THING SO YOU SUCK
prack-how about some actual reasons to back up the game being so great. I don't think its that great of a game because...(Prak then goes into detail and gives examples in the game of why its not that great)
fanboy-OMG THATS NOT WHY IT SUCKS U SUCK BECAUSE U DONT LIEK IT NAD U DONT GET IT (still not backing up his argument with any details at all)

I do back up my arguments he just doesnt think its good enough and i say more than its good cuz its good i give reasons and evaluate them with my opinion its just what ever i say he contradicts and argues for the sake of contradicting and arguing. And you do know some things about cloud in the begining especially if you read the guidebook and the instruction manuel.

FFVII was ok the first time. If you play it through more than twice, you need help. srsly. It's not the best game ever.

The only reason that it was so popular was because it was advertised so much on TV(and magazines I'm sure) and it was so god damn easy...

Wow, I missed a lot of excitement. (End sarcasm)

But while I'm on here, I guess that I should <B>link to my oh so great post</B> I made a while ago about the game!

This game brought my attention and thats how i got into FF

I guess if you used the game to get started playing FF then it's alright, don't want a game too hard to break the ice...FFVII seemed way too easy for me cause I started with FFIII which was not easy(especially the first time through)...

Gotta agree with you there i just started that one and its no cake walk but 7 did have its challenges too the first time through.

HELLO PRAK in the begining cloud wasnt helping barret and tifa out of the goodness of his heart it was for money the only reason he stayed on long enough to meet aeris was cuz they offered him more. BTW the only reason i focused on one character is becuase im lazy and dont want to take the time to go into a deep analysis of all 9 characters.

Lazy doesn't win debates, kid. And if you're so convinced that Cloud was only in it for the money, say why. Give examples. Prove it.


Secondly in X tidus is just lets get to zanarkand and beat sin but wait yunas gonna die i have to stop that and thats all he goes through which is there the entire time. And wakka barly sticks his foot out of the door when it comes to dispising yevon.

You say that like you have some kind of point behind it. Sadly, you forgot to include it. It's a mindless rant with zero value because you didn't tie it into the context of the discussion.


Thirdly theres a lot of people who hate you

So? I'm not trying to win a popularity contest.


and agree with me and a lot og people just agree with you and dont speak their minds is cuz ur a stubborn jackass who wont except anyone elses opinion but ur own

I have been known to revise my opinions if someone puts forth a superior argument and makes me reevaluate them. For example, Tokiko managed to completely change my stance on Necron in FFIX.


and if 7 sucks so much then why do people vote it as the best most of the time

Covered that already. Not doing it again. Try making new points instead of recycling the same old garbage in hopes that I'll let it slide on of these days.


and yes some are becuase they just jumped on the bandwagon but a lot are becuase it is a great game and people love it, you just have BAD TASTE!!!!!!!!!

Well, hooray for your obviously superior debate skills. How can I possibly compete with a statement like that? :rolleyes:


Finally the only part of the story thats incomplete is the end cuz its a cliffhanger

It wasn't meant to be a cliffhanger. There were no sequels planned until recently. Thus, you are unconditionally and irrefutably wrong.


but whats so bad about that some of the greatest movies and books end in cliffhangers and if it sucked so much people wouldnt care to see what happened nest they would just say i dont give a flying fuck

Usually, things that end with cliffhangers actually have sequels planned. See the point above.


but they want to know what happened next in the story becuase its sooo good they want to know do cloud and tifa get together, doe aeris come back, what happened to midgar, was sephiroth really destroyed.

All of which should have been covered in what was meant to be a stand-alone game. Again, bad writing.


On a closing note FF7 was a great game its story and plot are great becuase they have four elements that make any game, movie, or book great: Drama, Comedy, Love, and Action.

That was a stupid statement. Period. It doesn't even deserve a response because anyone reading it can tell that it's either a desperate attempt by a rabid fanboy to save face for his favorite game or that you have absolutely no concept of what makes a decent story.


And finally Prak if youve got nothing good to say then shut your fucking mouth and dont say anything

No. I always speak my mind and no arrogant twerp is going to convince me to hold my piece.


cuz this thread and forum is for those who praise the game and love it and want to talk about it

Wrong. This thread was made as a blatant counterpart to the original "FFVII - Why it ISN'T a Good Game" thread. Incidentally, that other thread is a debate thread, so why should this similarly themed thread not be the same thing? The forum itself is for discussion of the game, not just for fanboy lunatics to geek out over it.


people should be happy about the game and for loving it not be ashamed for it and be attacked cuz of it just cuz you dont like it and want to change billions of peoples opinion to match your own.

You missed my point. I don't give a shit whether you like it or not. I'm just making the case for it being a mediocre game at best. You're free to like it and geek out over it as much as you want, but I will call you on it when you claim that it's the best thing ever. Because it isn't. We've proven it time and time again over the course of these threads.


fvii was the single gr8test game ever to hit the videogaming world, in the future it will be studied like Mark Twain and Shakespeare, anybody who disagrees is wrong, like that dude, what was his name, Prick, yeah, his arguments wasnt even that good, he could at least come up wit some better points instead of tryin to contradict the obvious

How dare you compare a sub-par story with the works of Mark Twain? I don't give a crap about Shakespeare, but insulting Twain like that is unforgivable.

And by the way, I love it when people call me Prik/Prick because it means I've gotten to them. They can't argue with me in a civilized way, so they must resort to name-calling. It shows that your point of view has been soundly defeated and all you have to fall back on is personal derision.

And that, my friends, is a pwning

Alot of people seem to miss-interpret what Prak says..

I am a fan of FF7, it was the game that broke the FF "ice" for me, and at the time was one of the hrdest games I had ever played...

However, this thread is not about why I like the game, it is about it being a good game or not, and this fact also seems to have been overlooked.

Everyone goes on about how FF7 rules or it's the best, but without constructive reasoning this is just complete crap! and it gives the fans a bad name...

If you Read what Prak wrote you would understand that he accepts that there are fans of the game, but that he despises people who cannot constructively back up their comments with effective and conclusive reasoning.

I do like the evil phyco sepheroth and I also like Vincent they are awsome charicters

FF7 is good becuase its story pulls you in becuase it is neat and interesting and it was the first game i ever played that made me cry(when Aeris died). The characters are really stuck between a rock and a hard place becuase they know what shinra is doing to the planet is not right but they also know that sephiroths solution isnt right either and they have to decide how to stop them both without doing anymore damage thats already been done. and my final reason why i think it was a good game is becuase it was just fun the battles, the side quests, the chocobos and the minigames were all just really fun to me thats why i think its a good game and Prak im sick of fighting so ill except you reasons for hating it if youll except my reasons for loving it.

I guess if you used the game to get started playing FF then it's alright, don't want a game too hard to break the ice...FFVII seemed way too easy for me cause I started with FFIII which was not easy(especially the first time through)...

I started with FF1, so they all seemed just as easy to me. None of them require you to spend time dedicated to levelling up and nothing else except FF1, and I was already in the habit when I played all the others. So, to me, FF6 was no harder than FF7. Perhaps that's why I don't see why all of you are calling FF7 too easy. I don't play RPGs for a challenge, I play them because it's fun to play through a game once and eradicate the enemies with ease, and then go back through and level up even more ridiculously, causing me to do obscene amounts of damage early in the game. I don't mean to brag or anything; I'm just telling you how I play RPGs. Also, I don't think the story was as linear as many of you are saying it is. Yes, you know that the Shinra and Sephiroth are evil for pretty much the entire game, but you could easily tell Kefka was the main villain of FF6 from the first time you saw him. Plus, there are many conflicts involving the fight against Shinra, such as the number of innocent people who were killed in the process. The one thing I will admit is wrong with FF7's story is the ending. Yeah, if you want a reason to hate FF7, this is it. I mean, what the hell has just happened? Is the planet able to save itself despite holy's failure? Was your whole adventure a complete waste of time? Plus, it leaves way too many loose ends. I don't think there's anything wrong with the story until the ending.

For a final note, I'm not going to name any names, but please stop insulting people. This IS more of a problem from the die-hard FF7 fans, and it really makes it seem like you're all a bunch of FF7 zombies who have been sent out to eat everyone who opposes it. I know, not all FF7 fans are doing this, but there are those who are, and if you are, please stop.

I dont eat those who oppose it i just defend it from the insults it doesnt deserve youre right the only thing that did suck was the ending but i do agree with you those who are attacking those who hate it need to stop and those attakcing those who love it need to stop too.

I dont eat those who oppose it i just defend it from the insults it doesnt deserve youre right the only thing that did suck was the ending but i do agree with you those who are attacking those who hate it need to stop and those attakcing those who love it need to stop too.
Dude, I'm simply stating why I didn't like it and you are attacking the entire the way...

I'll agree that the personal attacks are out of line (including mine, although they're usually reserved for defense or instances of supreme idiocy anyway), but the fact still remains that this is a discussion about the game's quality. That means that those of us who disliked the game have every right to make our case for its inferiority.

I think final fantasy VII is a good game because I like the characters, battle system, Materia system, the story , heck I like everything about it.

Well after all, this thread is called: wHY IT is A GOOD GAME.

Well after all, this thread is called: wHY IT is A GOOD GAME.

well then since no one should argue that the game sucks in this thread, maybe everyone that thinks it IS a good game should stop saying it is a good game in the thread called: why it ISN'T a good game

Dont expect everyone to like it ..but its superb story , great graphics (for its time..quite crap now though), excellent music (truly awesome) and good character designs make it a great game.

I'll agree that the personal attacks are out of line (including mine, although they're usually reserved for defense or instances of supreme idiocy anyway), but the fact still remains that this is a discussion about the game's quality. That means that those of us who disliked the game have every right to make our case for its inferiority.

Like you said Prak, this IS a debate thread. Let's all try and keep it as one. Don't just state what you like/didn't like about it, state what makes it that way. And if one more person mentions how much money it made, then the other side automatically wins.

Like you said Prak, this IS a debate thread. Let's all try and keep it as one. Don't just state what you like/didn't like about it, state what makes it that way. And if one more person mentions how much money it made, then the other side automatically wins.
No, you guys don't win, because I'm going to say it again.

This game is the most marketed in video gaming history, period. And it has made a ton of money as well, especially with the several spin-offs that are coming out/released already.

Yeah keep the debate up. I used to be a huge fan. Now i've see the light, so to speak. It's a good game and i still enjoy it but there are tons better. I loved VII so much because it was the first FF i played. I never had any ground for comparison. Then i played the older ones and they surpass VII. Characters, the job System in VI was really great...

ffvii was so good.

No, you guys don't win, because I'm going to say it again.

This game is the most marketed in video gaming history, period. And it has made a ton of money as well, especially with the several spin-offs that are coming out/released already.

Ok, let me rephrase that. Next time someone uses popularity or lucrativity to prove whether it is good or not, the other side automatically wins. And if anything, YOU guys would win, because people keep repeating that "FF7 made the most money so it had to be good!"

WELL IF IT WASNT GOOD THEN IT WOULDNT HAVE MADE SO MUCH MONEY!! what the hell, millions of people purposefully spent $50 on a shitty game? NO!! The amount of sales and the money the game made is a completely legitimate reason to argue that FFVII is good. who the hell are u to decide which side automatically wins? u aint the judge

No. It means that the propaganda machine was really good and that's why people bought the game. Most of the kids (myself included) at the time never even heard of FF. So they bought it because it was so much advertised. Now thay say it's the best game ever because they didn't compare to the older ones or never played them.

No. It means that the propaganda machine was really good and that's why people bought the game. Most of the kids (myself included) at the time never even heard of FF. So they bought it because it was so much advertised. Now thay say it's the best game ever because they didn't compare to the older ones or never played them.

well, this "propaganda macine" was out of use YEARS ago, they dont advertise it anymore and somehow, the vast majority of the public still love FFVII. if the seventh final fantasy was really a bad game then it would have imploded once the "Propaganda macine" ceased to function, but it is still the most popular game of the whole FF series.

My statement stands. Every person who played FFVII before any of the others says it's the best. People who played the previous ones never say that. You can tell by some replies here. I used to say FFVII was the best. Then i played IV, V and VI. FVII is left behind. You can enjoy the game as much as you like, I really don't care, but saying that it's a good game because it sold a lot is indeed stupid. It's like saying a movie is great because it made millions. And although that sometimes may be true it is not the rule as many supposed blockbusters are really crap.

but its like ur sayin that FFVII is a step DOWN from the previous ones. i played ff6 and ff5 and believe me, they're wonderful, but FFVII took all of the good aspects of the old FF games and revolutionized it, better graphics, better gameplay, everything, while still keeping a great storyline. remember that FFVII was the first 3-D RPG that had all of these other great features too and back then, people were amazed and captivated by all this and that is why it sold millions and therfore was a game above all others.

I like the game. Don't get me wrong. But consider: how many sequels to great games are not worth 2 cents but people still say it's great because they're fanatics and won't admit anyything bad about it? I think it's the same with VII. I like the game but I can and I do admit that, although it sold like crazy, it's nothing special.

well if people are fanatics, there's gotta be SOME reason why they are such fans. people wont admit anything bad about it because in their minds they dont SEE anything bad about it, and if a game can get so many people to have this perfect veiw of it, the game did exactly what it was supposed to do: thoroughly entertain people to the point where they see nothing wrong with it. if a game can do that- make people see it as perfect despite its flaws, then it is something special.

People are only fanatics when they can't accept when someone makes a valid point about the game when they consider it bad. If you notice, and I'm sure you have, when someone explained why they thought the game was bad, all you and others like you replied was stuff like: "you suck. you don't know anything. VII is the best game ever". And don't deny this because i read the thread.

When someone actually made an effort to debate saying why it is a good game, they were almost imediately shattered by stronger arguments. Then you people resorted to name calling.

lemme try to be the first one to try an make a good point then. FFVII is good because
1) A huge leap from classic final fantasies, graphics- wise, while still retaining an acceptable storyline. unlike some other game developers, they didn't sacrifice the story just to make it all flashy, they focused on all aspects.
2) The characters: all of them have their story explained at some point in the game, in- depth
3) The protagonist, Cloud, he is mysterious and we dont kno too much about him in the beginning, that is true, but that is why they call it character DEVELOPMENT, you learn about his character throughout the game
4) The Antagonist, NOT ONLY SEPHIROTH!!! The antagonist of the story is ALL OF SHINRA, after all, they created Sephiroth, theyre destroying the planet
5) Action, the game is packed with it, the very first thing that you do in the game is blow up a reactor, talk about getting things moving from the begining...
6) THe materia system is simple enough for the beginner (which is why it is such a good game to start out with) yet does have it's complexities
That's it for now although theres much more

You're a bit late. Those aspects have been covered and, as i said, shattered.

....im losing my will to fight....

I don't care...

i dont care that you dont care

hahaha I knew you were just stupid kid.

hey, im SMRT! aint u on FFcomplete?

Why?

do u kno Supersaiyen Kuja4?

Take it to PMs

When someone actually made an effort to debate saying why it is a good game, they were almost imediately shattered by stronger arguments. Then you people resorted to name calling.


Does everyone just ignore my posts in the other thread about this game being good or not? Not once did I resort to name calling, and my arguments were not shattered, they still stand.

To your point about nobody that played the earlier FF games thinking 7 was the best. I had played both FF4 and FF6 before FF7 came out, I still think 7 was better than 4 and just as good as 6, in fact the only FF I consider better than 7 came out after 7. So that's kinda wrong.

???? we're talkin about FFVII??

oh, yeah....

About the name calling: I was talking about Spermking and that Trekkies something.
If i said nobody, sorry. I really meant almost anybody. If that's still wrong, go ahead and shoot me. One person does not make the rule. You liked it better. I know tons of people that didn't. I was a big fan of VII but my love for the game decreased when I played some of the older ones.

Does everyone just ignore my posts in the other thread about this game being good or not? Not once did I resort to name calling, and my arguments were not shattered, they still stand.

Durendal, the term "shattered" would not apply to you. You were easily the best our opposition has had to offer. Your points were always well-presented and we respected your tact and eloquence. However, it must also be conceded that you were forced to retract or amend several of your earlier positions (I count your willingness to do so as a high merit, incidentally.) over the course of the debate. Also, your points may not have been shattered, but they were countered. Thus, if we were keeping score, you would have lost, albeit not by much.

Yes I did amend and revise much of my argument, as did RM, which is why I think that thread started out as a decent debate. Just annoys me to come in here and read about how no fan of FF7 has ever been able to put together a coherent thought.

The reason I left that thread, and while I can't speak for RM I suspect it's the same, is the extreme stupidity I saw in there. So that's one thing we can agree on.

Very true. I wish the people who are only going to give kneejerk responses and insults would scram and leave us with a decent debate.

WELL IF IT WASNT GOOD THEN IT WOULDNT HAVE MADE SO MUCH MONEY!! what the hell, millions of people purposefully spent $50 on a shitty game? NO!! The amount of sales and the money the game made is a completely legitimate reason to argue that FFVII is good. who the hell are u to decide which side automatically wins? u aint the judge

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It looks like we lose. It was a good effort, though.

Well, some of us gave good effort...

Ok first of all i support my claims with facts and second of all you guys "shatter" our arguments just by saying "no thats not true" you dont even listen you just yell at us about how you think its bad and you know what ive played all but nine and beaten 7 8 and 10 and im right now working on beating 5 and 1 and yes they're good but i dont get the same excitment and fun i got from 7 and 8 which are tied as my favorites. The characters were great b/c they had emotion and were like people you would meet in every day life and example is when aeris dies cloud falls apart and slowly breaks down mentally in the previous ones if someone died they'd just be like "oh well he died trying to save the planet... ok im happy now". the story was awesome it just had a cliffhanger ending and whats so bad about that the stroy goes to something completly unpredictable think it goes from being just to stop shinra and save the planet from pollution and protect aeris but becomes stopping sephiroth form going to the ultimate extreme to save the planet, avenging those who have perished on the journey and ending grudge that has gone on for too long and it was just fun and isnt that what video games are for? And those who say materia is too easy to understand it confuses me more than the junction system. It was and still is a great game its graphics were great for the time and still are pretty good when you compare them to other PSX games for example compare the graphics in earlier games such as resident evil it had good graphics but they were really block and looked like pieces of paper put together in ff7 they actually look pretty rounded of and smooth . And you know some people did just jump on the bandwagon but the majority just love it becuase it is a good game and i know that i dont love it just for the advertising becuase I NEVER SAW ANY COMMERCIALS FOR IT !!! I just saw it in the store one day and said wow this looks neat and i bought it and fell in love with it. And i know pleanty of people who agree its good not just for its advertising and those who say its just good for the advertising your just saying that for a reason to smash down those who come up with good opinions that you just dont want to except. think about it this way is star wars considered a great movie just becuase it had good advertising NO!! Is the lord of the rings considered a great book and movie series becuase fo advertisng NO!!!! And is Final Fantasy VII considered one of the greatest games of all time becuase of advertising NO!!!! its good becuase its good with a wonderful story of love, freindship and tying loose ends. and some may have bought it for the advertising but the reason they kept it and continue to play it and love it is becuase IT IS A GREAT GAME END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!!

IT IS A GREAT GAME END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!!

If that were true there would not be two threads with over 600 replies collectively debating the issue.

Well why dont you read the rest and youll find reasons behind that statement

Well why dont you read the rest and youll find reasons behind that statement
I'm pretty sure RM already has...and I'm also quite sure that he disagrees with most if not all of the arguments for the game.

Ok first of all i support my claims with facts

Your so-called facts are nothing but conjecture and opinion. There's nothing wrong with presenting opinion in a debate, but you have to have a solid defense for it, which you don't. Conjecture has no place in debates, however.


and second of all you guys "shatter" our arguments just by saying "no thats not true"

I guess you don't even bother to read our counter-arguments.


you dont even listen you just yell at us about how you think its bad

See above.


and you know what ive played all but nine and beaten 7 8 and 10 and im right now working on beating 5 and 1 and yes they're good but i dont get the same excitment and fun i got from 7 and 8 which are tied as my favorites.

Woo-frickin-hoo. That's nothing but personal opinion, which is worthless in this context. All you're saying is that you love it, so it must be good. That doesn't fly.


The characters were great b/c they had emotion and were like people you would meet in every day life

Uhhh... no. How is a guy with unclear origins and a massive identity crisis like someone you'd meet in real life. You only meet people like that in sanitariums. You only see people like Barrett on bad tv shows. Yuffie is just like an anime character. Cid is a comic book/hollywood stereotype that would be a plumber in real life. And there's no one alive with as little personality as Tifa.


and example is when aeris dies cloud falls apart and slowly breaks down mentally

In totally unbelievable fashion, I might add. The dialogue on that scene was so ridiculously written, I practically gagged when I read it.


in the previous ones if someone died they'd just be like "oh well he died trying to save the planet... ok im happy now".

Such as? Name an instance of that.


the story was awesome it just had a cliffhanger ending and whats so bad about that

What's bad about that is that it was intended to be a stand-alone story. As such, it wasn't a true cliffhanger, just an incomplete ending. And we've already argued against the story's quality many times, so I'm not going to go back to that. You can look up the old arguments on your own.


the stroy goes to something completly unpredictable think it goes from being just to stop shinra and save the planet from pollution and protect aeris but becomes stopping sephiroth form going to the ultimate extreme to save the planet, avenging those who have perished on the journey and ending grudge that has gone on for too long

Are you kidding? It spells out for you in the very beginning that Shinra and Sephiroth are the bad guys. And the villain ALWAYS has a megalomaniacal plan, so that was no shock, especially when it was remarkably similar to Kefka's plans in FFVI. And what game doesn't let you settle all the scores that's accumulated over its course?


and it was just fun and isnt that what video games are for?

Pure opinion there. No value in a debate.


And those who say materia is too easy to understand it confuses me more than the junction system.

So? It's not like either one was hard to understand.


It was and still is a great game

How nice. I disagree.


its graphics were great for the time

Only compared to games on lesser systems. The PlayStation allowed for better graphics, which is why they were regarded as good.


and still are pretty good when you compare them to other PSX games for example compare the graphics in earlier games such as resident evil it had good graphics but they were really block and looked like pieces of paper put together in ff7 they actually look pretty rounded of and smooth .

And how about we compare it to Blood Omen, another RPG that was released on the same day as FFVII, but had far superior graphics. Things like that are always subjective, but it is a conclusive fact that FFVII was not king of the hill in terms of its graphics at the time of its release.


And you know some people did just jump on the bandwagon but the majority just love it becuase it is a good game

I'd like to see you prove that.


and i know that i dont love it just for the advertising becuase I NEVER SAW ANY COMMERCIALS FOR IT !!! I just saw it in the store one day and said wow this looks neat and i bought it and fell in love with it.

That's nice, but hardly relevant as it was a personal experience and is not in any way indicative of most peoples' experiences.


And i know pleanty of people who agree its good not just for its advertising and those who say its just good for the advertising

Which means nothing if their impression of the game had already been formed by the ads they saw.


your just saying that for a reason to smash down those who come up with good opinions that you just dont want to except.

The word you were looking for is accept. And if you call the tripe we've been dealing with lately good opinions, then you're not worthy of the effort it takes to type our replies.


think about it this way is star wars considered a great movie just becuase it had good advertising NO!!

That's another issue entirely because I don't think Star Wars was a particularly great film.


Is the lord of the rings considered a great book and movie series becuase fo advertisng NO!!!!

But it's not like they got heavily advertised. Have you ever, in your entire life, seen an actual ad for the books? I haven't. And the movies had very little advertising compared to a lot of other movies.


And is Final Fantasy VII considered one of the greatest games of all time becuase of advertising NO!!!!

You realize, don't you, that there are a great many people who would not, in a million years, count FFVII as one of the greatest games ever? And it stands that its popularity was largely due to the excessive amount of advertising it got.


its good becuase its good with a wonderful story of love, freindship and tying loose ends.

Don't make me laugh. Love? It wasn't even a major theme in the game. Friendship? Most of the characters didn't even seem to care about each other. That just happened to have a common goal. Tying loose ends? Not remotely. It only hinted at the backstories of several characters, but never gave any real payoff. And the ending was a complete cop-out.


and some may have bought it for the advertising but the reason they kept it and continue to play it and love it is becuase IT IS A GREAT GAME END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!!

What a stupid thing to say. I'm replying, so apparently it wasn't the end of the discussion. It was just the end of your ridiculously pointless rant where you blathered about how you liked things, but never made a solid case for it actually being good. In the end, the only thing you really said was "It's good because it's popular."

Ok, im failrly unbiased here, and bored, so from trekki's big post that prak just replied to, i'm officially keeping score. if u watch around the horn on espn, i'll score points in a similar fashion. and if it keeps up like this, its gonna be pretty one sided

trekkis side-3
prak's side-11

How can you say the characters dont care about each other!?! When Aeris dies Cloud Falls apart Tifa walks up kisses her on the forehead and runs off crying and i dont know what the other characters do cuz i either dont remeber or they werent in my party. Cid and Shera obviously care about each other or cid would have luanched the rocket and killed her and shera wouldnt have saved cids life when the O2 tank blew up on him. Cloud and Tifa care about each other cuz if they didnt Tifa would have let Cloud fall to his death in the end and wouldnt have gotten him out of the life stream.

And prak you broke up what i said so it doesnt make much sense i said "I know plenty of people who bought the game not just for its advertising, and those who think its just good for the advertising are just saying tthat to smash down others opinions..."

And Prak you do realize that there is and equal or even bigger number of people who DO count final fantasy VII as one of the best games ever.

And you say a lot of my things are opinions well a lot of your things are opinions too such as your opinion is that it is good just for the advertising while mine and others are its good becuase of something else. Another example of this is i say its fun and you say its not. Chorns goes on about how 6 is better than 7 and thats an opinion before you start saying our facts dont count becuase they're opinions look through some of your facts and see how many are opinions.

And you say we repeat ourselves well for the past 2 or 3 pages youve been saying its the advertising its the advertising.

And finally Prak im getting sick and tired of this arguing ill accept your opinions if you'll accept mine. I personally think its one of the bes games ever and if you'll accept that some peoples opinions are different and we just liked the game i will accept that some people dont like the game. just quit trying to attack our opinions and make others hate the game and we will stop trying to make others love it after all this thread is for those who love it and want to talk about why they love it while the other is for those who dont like and want to talk about why they dont like it.

Its good because it has
Sephiroth

nuff said =)

Thanx Detonate. Oh by the way (BANG)

Hey Prak this is for you "They're Pinky and the Brain They're Pinky and the Brain, one is a genius the others insane, uhh i don't know the rest ill have to try my best, They're Pinky, They're Pinky and the Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain."

Wow i cant believe i remebered that much last time i heard that i was like 5

How can you say the characters dont care about each other!?! When Aeris dies Cloud Falls apart Tifa walks up kisses her on the forehead and runs off crying and i dont know what the other characters do cuz i either dont remeber or they werent in my party. Cid and Shera obviously care about each other or cid would have luanched the rocket and killed her and shera wouldnt have saved cids life when the O2 tank blew up on him. Cloud and Tifa care about each other cuz if they didnt Tifa would have let Cloud fall to his death in the end and wouldnt have gotten him out of the life stream.

And prak you broke up what i said so it doesnt make much sense i said "I know plenty of people who bought the game not just for its advertising, and those who think its just good for the advertising are just saying tthat to smash down others opinions..."

And Prak you do realize that there is and equal or even bigger number of people who DO count final fantasy VII as one of the best games ever.

And you say a lot of my things are opinions well a lot of your things are opinions too such as your opinion is that it is good just for the advertising while mine and others are its good becuase of something else. Another example of this is i say its fun and you say its not. Chorns goes on about how 6 is better than 7 and thats an opinion before you start saying our facts dont count becuase they're opinions look through some of your facts and see how many are opinions.

And you say we repeat ourselves well for the past 2 or 3 pages youve been saying its the advertising its the advertising.

And finally Prak im getting sick and tired of this arguing ill accept your opinions if you'll accept mine. I personally think its one of the bes games ever and if you'll accept that some peoples opinions are different and we just liked the game i will accept that some people dont like the game. just quit trying to attack our opinions and make others hate the game and we will stop trying to make others love it after all this thread is for those who love it and want to talk about why they love it while the other is for those who dont like and want to talk about why they dont like it.

Prak never said anything was wrong with your opinions, and he didn't say he wasn't expressing opinions. He was criticizing you for the fact that you didn't provide facts to support them. Also, he never said it was a good game only because of advertising; he said it isn't a good game at all. And I'm definitely not biased for his side because I thought FF7 was a good game, but I'm trying to get people like you to shut up so that my points won't get clouded by your worthless posts.

i do give facts and examples from the game they just ignore them and go straight for the opinions