hey,

I was making Sig's today mixing in alot of different Characters and games when i noticed something. Vincent's left hand and forearm are, well, "different". It appears as if he has claws almost raplacing his fingers, and it looks like it made from something along the lines of metal. but when i was looking at Cloud from Kingdom Hearts, he says that he has been thru heaven and hell looking for "someone" and if you look at his left hand and forearm, it resembles Vincents almost claw like structure. so this makes me wonder...we all know~~~SPOLIER~~~~~ that Hojo mutated Vincent, but did he actully die and fight his way back?? i'm going to continue my search for the answer and post it here if i find it, or if someone has the answer, please help me out

laterz
Lone wolf

*SPOILER*

Well, if you piece together the little things Vincent says from FF7, you can see that he decided to put himself through his own hell (sleeping in the crypt, having a constant nightmare) because he failed to save Lucrecia from Hojo's experiements.

So, Cloud in KH, "having gone through heaven and hell" and looking alot like Vincent probably has the meaning that Cloud felt alot like Vincent did about Lucrecia, but towards that "someone," and how he wasn't able to save her either.

Or it might just be the company trying to appeal to the audience by combining the look of two of the favorite characters from FF7.

Well, if you piece together the little things Vincent says from FF7, you can see that he decided to put himself through his own hell (sleeping in the crypt, having a constant nightmare) because he failed to save Lucrecia from Hojo's experiements.

Yes, i already knew he put himself thru his own personal hell, but I'm wondering if he actully DID go to hell, or heaven, since Cloud did and came out with an arm just like his. but i'm sure your idea about the company is most likly true

laterz
lone wolf

I think they just used the claw because it looks cool and gives a dark accent to the character. Cloud obviously was searching for Aerith in KH ( and there's a happy ending-*SPOILER* they get back together during the credits it makes me wonder if they'll have a kid in KH2?)

Im amazed at myself I didn't realize Cloud's arm like that till just now. speaking of KH2, does anyone know of a good site on it? or if it's out I think it is.

that was totally off topic...

they dont have a heaven and hell. they dont believe in God, so they cant believe in those aspects of christianity. when people died in vii, they went into the lifestream--not hell, heaven, limbo, or whatever.

actully, in kingdom hearts, cloud says:

" I am also looking for someone, i've already been thru both heaven and hell looking for her, but i can't give up now, thank you Sora"

so.....i guess in that game they do, and since Cloud is from 7, we can only assume there is more then the lifestream


laterz
lone wolf

Well, you've got to remember how KH rocked the boat with alot of FF stuff. Like the whole Aerith instead of Aeris thing is alot from KH.

And since its a completely different game, I'm just gonna say that the company decided to add that heaven/hell thing so people not familiar with the Promised Land and whatnot would understand the idea of what Cloud has been through.

Yeah, that's probably true, but it could also mean that in the lifestream, those who were good go to the promised land, and those who weren't end up like Cloud did except for all eternity? Or perhaps, as Cloud traversed the different worlds, he may have encountered heaven and hell along the way, or encountered worlds where heaven and hell did exist. Also, I beleive Aerith was her name all along, but it can be spelled eithe way, Aeris or Aerith, so it doesn't really matter.

I always thought that Aerith was the japanese name and Aeris the US/European translation of it....

or am i wrong now??

I'd heard that her Japanese name was Aeriso Gonzoboro.

Back on topic, though. I'm thinking that you could say that Vincent 'fought his way out of Hell,' or in his case, the hell he made for himself. From the moment that you get Vincent to join your party, you could think of that as Vincent's first steps to get out of his hell, choosing to do something to atone for what he had done, going after Shinra and, eventually, Hojo.

If you remember in the battle with Hojo, Vincent says something along the lines of "It was you who should have slept!" At that point, I think, Vincent finally escaped his hell.

Originally posted by Kirgar
I'd heard that her Japanese name was Aeriso Gonzoboro.


Aerith Gainsborough

Maybe you're too young to know it, but going through heaven and hell is a commonly used metaphor for going through a great effort.

And the Japanese name is Eirasu, or Aeris, not Aerith.

yea...... :rolleyes:

i understand the whole heaven and hell thing as having a hard life, trust me i know the feeling, but look at Clouds picture with the claw, it looks like the claw is coming out of his glove like it's grafted to his fingers as for Vincent maybe they really are his fingers and it's like he was using them as a weapon when he was mutated and they became part of him.

Cloud's little appearance in KH looks like they just threw vincents little cape and his left arm on to cloud...and they bulked him up. The last time i checked on cloud he was a skinny runt (look at the official artwork for ff7). hmmm since we were talking about aeris, why didnt they put tifa in KH...guess her boobs were too big for disney to handel. Got to keep it "G" rated.

Bearing in mind that Kingdom Hearts was probably coded by a different team who weren't entirely sure about the ins and outs of Final Fantasy VII, it's entirely possible that what Cloud said in Kingdom Hearts is just a slip of the tongue, so to speak. Or just relating to symbolism that everyone will understand.

Comparing Vincent's claw to Cloud's claw and saying they've been been to Hell is a bit of a... Unlikely coincidence.

Now in terms of his personal problems, with the demon inside him, I guess that Vincent has, and still is, combating his personal Hell. He could not stop Hojo, he could not prevent Sephiroth from being created. He could not stop Lucrecia from being used. Therefore the mutations he suffers are his punishment for it. His penance.

We may found out during Advent Children. :) At least we can hope.

Originally posted by Sjel
I always thought that Aerith was the japanese name and Aeris the US/European translation of it....

or am i wrong now??

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Aeris was called Aerith in the US PC version of FFVII.

I might be remembering things weird though- it's been a looooong time since I played VII on the PC.

well when you really think about it, Cloud did go through Hell and Heaven with the whole Mako poisoning, and rediscovering himself. but i think that him with the claw was just something to add. now Vincent, he's got reeeeeeeal problems. they are his own personal hell and the truth is he's tormenting himself but maybe this will change in AC.

Originally posted by lone wolf
actully, in kingdom hearts, cloud says:

" I am also looking for someone, i've already been thru both heaven and hell looking for her, but i can't give up now, thank you Sora"

so.....i guess in that game they do, and since Cloud is from 7, we can only assume there is more then the lifestream


laterz
lone wolf

Cloud never said that...Was it in the Japanese version or something?

Cloud says it when he gives Sora that technique but i don't think he actually meant heaven and hell, just hard times.

He did not! I don't remember anything like that!

I havent played KH, but I think Cloud does like Areis but Tifa has always been in the background since they were kids. *and they call it puppy love* I think clouds just one hell of a playHa! I recon hes got to know Yufi pretty well aswell if you know what i mean?!?! Come on, its gotta get lonely on all those adventures through the north cave...

Quite off topic aren't we? anyway i think that if any1 has been through hell it's Vincent. He probably rules it. He's all dark, mysterious, and self-loathing, yet righteous in his own way. he seems so perfect for it. so maybe he's really been to hell.

He did not! I don't remember anything like that!

it's right after Sora and the other help Cloud out in the battle tournament, and after they helped hercules. they start talking and Cloud says something like that, but i remember him saying something about heaven and hell, and he got outta hell by fighting Sora for Hades. then after he says his piece, Cloud gives Sora the Metal Chocobo key blade, which is suppost to be the key equal to his sword.


laterz
lone wolf

hmm...that's exactly true. Like Cloud says in KH, he did went through heaven and hell looking for Aeris. Maybe there was more to the Promise Land...although Cloud may had just transcend into other worlds.....like he did in Tactics. Looking for the Promise Land isn't easy and I think Cloud knows that too.
When looking at both pics., it look like Vincent and Cloud both went through a lot just to get where they are know. They both lost something precious to them and fallen into their own darkness.

how very true, but Cloud came out of his darkness near the end of FFVII, you know when he was all we gotta let go of Aeris, and we will save the world and all that when he once again becomes the team leader. anyway i think that Vincent truly went through hell during all his mutations, and trying to stop Sephiroth from being created, and how he loved Lucrecia, and all that, especially with the way he started hating himself. once you do that, you create your own hell.

Hmm..that's not exactly true. It look like Cloud fell into his own darkness again. He did stated at the end of FF7 of meeting Aeris at the Promise Land. Its just a matter of reaching it and I don't think Cloud has found it yet. So he did exactly went through heaven and hell, transcending to other worlds to reach the Promise Land and be with Aeris. In many aspects, Cloud is just like Vincent now, losing something precious and trying to find that light again.

da way i figger it, by Cloud saying he will meet Aeris in the Promised Land, he has some sort of death wish. i think that's the hell he's going through, trying to find sum1 or something powerful enough to put him out of his misery so he can go be with Aeris. and yes in that way he is just like Vincent, who in my opinion has truly been through Hell. i can actually relate to Vincent, the way he feels, the whole coulda, woulda, shoulda, but didn't feeling.

even though i think Cloud and Aeris should be together it whould be weird to further their relationship in a different game then theirs, But I do hope something happens in AC . Does anyone think they know why Aeris is in KH I mean how did she get there revived and stuff?

it's a whole different dimension, or reality or sumthin i guess, maybe she never died there. but anyway, Cloud to hell and back...no. but Vincent, he most likely rules it. in these times, they'd put him in 1 of those jackets that make you hug yourself, and throw him in a padded room.

honestly, i think that it was just a coincedence as KH and FFVII are set in completely different worlds.

Originally posted by Master Nabeshin
I think they just used the claw because it looks cool and gives a dark accent to the character. Cloud obviously was searching for Aerith in KH ( and there's a happy ending-*SPOILER* they get back together during the credits it makes me wonder if they'll have a kid in KH2?)

I can't picture Cloud being a father

Cloud could be a father, it would just be a little wierd. anyway maybe when cloud does have kids after all they put him through then they move out, that will be his hell.