1:Sephiroth has the make of a better tragic anti hero than cloud could ever dream of.His past and all would have made him a very tragic hero that you could believe.Instead,he was put in the position as a half ass villain.

2:The villain gets nowhere near enough screen time and dialogue to develop the relationship between all characters.Do you guys admit that kefka has way more dialogue and appearance? After all:When is the first time we see sephiroth? first sign is at shinra hq,and even then we don't see him.Next time:Dream sequence of him.This scene alone proves that sephiroth would have made a better hero than a villain,along with the scene where he talks about his mother and feels sad and gets angry at being experimented on,besides:How many of you would like to have a main char with a katana? katana weapons are kinda cool.Sephiroth gets a few scenes,and all of them are in the dream sequences.We don't get to see the real one till the very end,and by then:He says nothing at all when we fight him.No motivational speech to hate him,and no speech on anything.

3:Character connections are very important.I think sephiroth is maybe connected to three characters:Cloud tifa and vincent.The rest are more connected to shinra as a whole,which leaves the game with little connection to the villain between all of them.
Kefka is connected to each and every character.He harmed all of them in one way or another,cept maybe gogo.But gogo umaro and mog were all hidden characters,and we don't know anything about them.I got a really good reason to hate kefka,but i can't think of any reason why i should hate sephiroth.While i felt sad for aeris,it was because she was innocent,but even then,i felt little for her.

4:The end.I was a bit disappointed with the ending itself.One bit that kind of disappointed me,was the bit with red XIIII.I saw him running around with his children and wondered:Did the world get destroyed? what happened to cloud? I was confused as to what happened.

The introduction of Sephiroph was quite Genius. All this time we have been battling the Shinra. We climbed the plate and infiltarted the Shinra HQ progressing through each floor. Then Sephiroph is introduced, but by that time we have no idea what he looks like.

When Cloud tells the story he says "Sephirophs strength was greater in reality than any story or legend". Woo this really stir things up. And his 2 meter long katana!
You said a Katana is a cool weapon that would suit a main character. But a 2 meter katana is something else, it is menacing, a perfect weapon for a villan.

1. Good point in a way, you did feel sorry for Sephiroth in the story Cloud tells you. However his actions, manipulating Cloud, killing Aeris, destroying Nibelheim, killing Tifa's dad, getting the Black Materia and summoning Meteor all make him an awesome villain I think. But each to their own.

2. Sephiroth gets quite a lot of TV time, obviously through Jenova, but at the time you don't know that. He gets more than Kefka in this respect, but if that doesn't count then I suppose not, but his essence, his persona and his agenda are all clear and carry the storyline from very early right to the very end.

3. You don't always need all characters to connect to the main villain. All FF7s characters have their own agendas which tie in with killing Sephiroth. Don't forget that Sephiroth was to destroy the whole world, so everyone was fighting to save it as well.

4. Yeah I think FF7s ending is poor but it does enough to satisfy me, just killing Sephiroth with Omnislash is awesome.

When I saw the title of the thread I thought you were insinuating that FF7 failed. It was the most successful FF title of all time. I think you are trying to say that Squaresoft failed with Sephiroth, which as you can see I don't agree with you completely but I see where you are coming from in some parts. I personally love Sephiroth, not as much as Kefka, but I thought overall he was a brilliantly badass villain that satisfied me immensely. :)

1:Sephiroth has the make of a better tragic anti hero than cloud could ever dream of.His past and all would have made him a very tragic hero that you could believe.Instead,he was put in the position as a half ass villain.
I disagree; Sephiroth as an anti-hero would be pretty hard to manage. Consider that the approach to the protagonist in this game is that his history (everything that happened prior to the start of this game) is meant to serve as the primary motivation for the protagonist's action and overall journey. Sure, Cloud get's the extra motivation of revenge when Sephiroth kills Aeris, but in terms of overall story arc, the plot is very much driven by Cloud's journey of self-discovery and his desire to set himself apart as a unique, important warrior in the world. He wants to stop living in Zack's shadow and be recognized for his own strength and achievements. This is all symbolically achieved by destroying Sephiroth, in addition to the more literal goals of saving the goddamn world and avenging the murder of the woman he loved.

I don't think this kind of motivation could be obtained from Sephiroth's backstory; he has nothing to prove and nothing to achieve, he's just angry at the world for what he views as a grave injustice that has been perpetrated against him. I don't know if you've ever played Dungeons and Dragons, but from both a DM and a player's perspective, a player character that despises all life for the injustices the character has suffered is almost impossible to work into a storyline without breaking character. It's just too hard for the player or the DM to come up with a sufficient reason why the character would put aside such a deeply rooted hatred to benefit those he/she hates. Video games work pretty much the same way; given Sephiroth's history and his response to discovering the whole JENOVA secret, I can't see any way that Sephiroth could become anything other than a villian.

There's also the problem of protagonist growth: the main character in any game, book or movie, needs to go through some sort of personal growth. In RPG's that growth is two-fold; First the character becomes stronger through the battles he/she fights until they are capable of facing the final boss, and second the character experiences some major personal growth. Cloud finds his identity and becomes a person of his own, rather than just pretending to be Zack. Sephiroth *could* have some character growth in the personal growth area, but at the start of the game he's the strongest SOLDIER, and pretty much the most powerful individual in the world. There's no opportunity for him to grow stronger; he's already the baddest dude alive.

You also said he's a half-ass villain, but I disagree here as well; Sephiroth manipulates Cloud constantly with visions and illusions, and is constantly just out of reach. He's almost taunting Cloud through the entire game, engaging in some pretty heavy psychological warfare.

2:The villain gets nowhere near enough screen time and dialogue to develop the relationship between all characters.Do you guys admit that kefka has way more dialogue and appearance? After all:When is the first time we see sephiroth? first sign is at shinra hq,and even then we don't see him.Next timeream sequence of him.This scene alone proves that sephiroth would have made a better hero than a villain,along with the scene where he talks about his mother and feels sad and gets angry at being experimented on,besides:How many of you would like to have a main char with a katana? katana weapons are kinda cool.Sephiroth gets a few scenes,and all of them are in the dream sequences.We don't get to see the real one till the very end,and by then:He says nothing at all when we fight him.No motivational speech to hate him,and no speech on anything.

It's a thing called suspense. Horror movies use this kind of "Hide the badguy" technique all the time because it creates a hook for the audience; Who is the badguy? What are his goals, his motivations? What is he capable of? The complete answers to these questions are kept from us, but we are constantly learning more about him through the clues he leaves behind and the instances where he uses his powers.

You made a comparison to Kefka, but Kefka was an entirely different monster; he wasn't an expert warrior, he wasn't someone that would or could go out and accomplish major goals or slay giant monsters, at least not initially. He was powerful, and he wasn't above getting his hands dirty when necessary, but he worked mostly through manipulating others into doing his job for him. Subversion and manipulation were his tools. A character like that HAS to be given a large amount of dialogue and appearance, because his impact on the plot is entirely contained in his dialogue and appearances.

Contrast this with Sephiroth, who regularly kills just about everything in his way because he's the strongest SOLDIER the ever have existed. Put aside his powers of manipulation and you've still got a force of destruction. Hell, the first time you're introduced to Sephiroth is through a trail of blood through the headquarters of the most powerful(only?) political/business entity in the world. The next time you see him, you've just used a Chocobo to outrun a Midgar Zolom, a giant snake that, if you try to just fight, absolutely obliterates your party. What do you see once you've gotten across the swamp where this snake resides? The corpse of a Midgar Zolom on display for you, left by Sephiroth. Sephiroth is a whirlwind of destruction and death. He doesn't waste time with subversion or manipulation to accomplish his major goal with meteor and the lifestream and all that. He's direct and to the point; Kefka would get a ruler to go into the swamp with him, leave the ruler to die to the snake while Kefka sneaks past and simultaneously seizes control of that ruler's country, Sephiroth just walks up and kills the goddamn snake. No elaborate plans or long-winded monologues needed; Sephiroth gets his point across and achieves his goals through his own actions, mostly because he's the most powerful individual in the world.

Again you bring up that his feeling sad/angry about being experimented on would make him a great hero, but he's not really sad so much as mentally unhinged, and angry is a bit of an understatement. He seeks to destroy everyone and everything and become a god. His mental state following the JENOVA discovery is the most realistic possible, but it's a mental state that doesn't allow for any kind of action that we would consider "good". He sees himself as superior to everyone on the planet, and views them as tools to be used for his eventual transition into godhood.

As for having a main character with a katana, that's really a silly argument. Cloud's Buster Sword at least has significance to his character in that it represents the identity he *stole* from Zack. Sephiroth's weapon is insiginificant in every way; it's just an insanely powerful weapon that the already insanely powerful antagonist uses.

Finally you again complain that Sephiroth pretty much doesn't say anything. Once again, Sephiroth isn't a boring, cliche villian that delivers one-liners and monologues. In a way, those sorts of exchanges that we are used to in our antagonists are an expression of weakness in the antagonist. It's an ego thing: "Appreciate my evil yet brilliant plan and acknowledge my superiority before I kill you!" Sephiroth doesn't have the weakness of such a frail ego. He's brilliant and superior to everyone, and he knows it. He doesn't need the acknowledgement or appreciation of those he is superior to. Wasting words on such insignificant beings is beneath him, so he doesn't waste time with it. Sephiroth toys with Cloud's mind by constantly tricking Cloud into believing he is about to catch up with Sephiroth, but that's more for his own amusement, and perhaps for revenge after Cloud unexpectedly overpowered Sephiroth in the Shinra reactor during the Nibelheim incident. He doesn't deliver that motivational speech to hate him because it's beneath him to speak to someone so pathetic, and from a plot construction perspective, we don't NEED that speech because we already have enough reason to hate him; he's trying to kill everyone and become a god, and he killed Aeris. Sephiroth lacks the boring, cliche flaw of most villians and has an ego that doesn't need to be stoked (instead being narcissistic to a genocidal degree) which I'd say is definitely a good thing!


3:Character connections are very important.I think sephiroth is maybe connected to three characters:Cloud tifa and vincent.The rest are more connected to shinra as a whole,which leaves the game with little connection to the villain between all of them.
Kefka is connected to each and every character.He harmed all of them in one way or another,cept maybe gogo.But gogo umaro and mog were all hidden characters,and we don't know anything about them.I got a really good reason to hate kefka,but i can't think of any reason why i should hate sephiroth.While i felt sad for aeris,it was because she was innocent,but even then,i felt little for her.

You should hate Sephiroth because he murders without cause or restraint. You should hate Sephiroth because he is unleashing hell on the planet in the form of the Weapons, and he is calling down a Meteor that is meant to wipe out all life, simply so that he can become more powerful. The only character truly connected to Sephiroth is Cloud; Cloud has a personal vendetta against Sephiroth for killing Aeris and because killing Sephiroth is a way for Cloud to obtain selfhood. The rest of the characters want to stop Sephiroth because he's trying to kill everyone on the planet. Wanting to stop planet-wide genocide is a pretty good motivation for most characters =P

4:The end.I was a bit disappointed with the ending itself.One bit that kind of disappointed me,was the bit with red XIIII.I saw him running around with his children and wonderedid the world get destroyed? what happened to cloud? I was confused as to what happened.

This could have been done better I suppose, but a lot of the aftermath is covered more in depth by Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberous and the other post-meteor games that have been released.

... FF7 is the best selling, highest rated and most downloaded Game in history. That speaks for itself, and i along with many people feel that the game couldn't have been done better.

... FF7 is the best selling, highest rated and most downloaded Game in history.

Um, no. Not by a long shot. Pokemon Red, Green, and Blue, Tetris, Wii Sports, Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Ape Escape, Pacman, and even Angry Birds have all outsold Final Fantasy VII. Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games). Also, it is not nearly as highly rated as you think. Games like Ocarina of Time, Soul Caliber, and Final Fantasy IX have all received higher ratings than Final Fantasy VII. Source (http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html). So get your facts right before make a completely exaggerated claim like the one you just made.


That speaks for itself, and i along with many people feel that the game couldn't have been done better.

Would you honestly say that the game is flawless? As in, there is nothing to improve? For instance, the combination of dialogue elements needed to acquire Yuffie, which has no rhyme or reason and practically requires a strategy guide was a great decision in your opinion? The character design of Cloud with muscles shaped like basketballs connected to pipecleaners is impossible to improve? And making our protagonist cross-dress and rewarding the player for getting the perfect dress combination (again, which is never directly stated) and also having the option of getting him gangraped in a spa was a good idea? Look, I'm not hating on FFVII, because I like the game. But saying that it's a perfect game that "couldn't have been done better" is engaging in hyperbole. I don't think anyone would say that.

1:Sephiroth has the make of a better tragic anti hero than cloud could ever dream of.His past and all would have made him a very tragic hero that you could believe.Instead,he was put in the position as a half ass villain.

2:The villain gets nowhere near enough screen time and dialogue to develop the relationship between all characters.Do you guys admit that kefka has way more dialogue and appearance? After all:When is the first time we see sephiroth? first sign is at shinra hq,and even then we don't see him.Next time:Dream sequence of him.This scene alone proves that sephiroth would have made a better hero than a villain,along with the scene where he talks about his mother and feels sad and gets angry at being experimented on,besides:How many of you would like to have a main char with a katana? katana weapons are kinda cool.Sephiroth gets a few scenes,and all of them are in the dream sequences.We don't get to see the real one till the very end,and by then:He says nothing at all when we fight him.No motivational speech to hate him,and no speech on anything.

3:Character connections are very important.I think sephiroth is maybe connected to three characters:Cloud tifa and vincent.The rest are more connected to shinra as a whole,which leaves the game with little connection to the villain between all of them.
Kefka is connected to each and every character.He harmed all of them in one way or another,cept maybe gogo.But gogo umaro and mog were all hidden characters,and we don't know anything about them.I got a really good reason to hate kefka,but i can't think of any reason why i should hate sephiroth.While i felt sad for aeris,it was because she was innocent,but even then,i felt little for her.

4:The end.I was a bit disappointed with the ending itself.One bit that kind of disappointed me,was the bit with red XIIII.I saw him running around with his children and wondered:Did the world get destroyed? what happened to cloud? I was confused as to what happened.


hater.. im guessing u were in the late 20's early 30's when this came out... you couldnt handle the advancements from snes to playstation haha. that is why alot of ppl that dis the game is because they were older an couldnt handle the breakthrough tech of the ps 1, is 14 buttons 2 much for you bud? like my mom, shes a beast at atari but when i hand her the double joystick ps 1 controler she dont know what to do. either thats ur problem or your to young an never got to experience it before the ps 3 an 360 came out...See i was 9 years old when this came out it was everything i was lookiing for. an my mom got it for christmas for me along with a brand new playstation..i was brought up on games like zelda and pitfall.. most kids around my age were brought up on toy story and sports games...

... FF7 is the best selling, highest rated and most downloaded Game in history. That speaks for itself, and i along with many people feel that the game couldn't have been done better.


i think angry birds is catching up. all hail angry birds!

i can't stand any ff's actually. the story telling is terrible, the gameplay is atrocious. ff7 is no exception.

um no, i just think ff7 is vastly overrated, and i prefer ff6 ff4/tactics.I can't decide, since i like ramza delita teta and gafgarion was cool, even for a traitor who sold out.After that, ff9, and after that FFX, and somewhere in between, ff5, then ff7, and the two last games are ff8, then FFXIII.FF7 is one of the last games i would play if given a choice.

As for ff7 commentary:I don't find sephiroth menacing at all, i found him a worthless excuse for his actions, and he keeps dying like ganon.Personally, i think hojo is scarier.Most of the time, its jenova who kills.hojo made sephiroth, so hojo is dr frankenstein, in that he doesn't care who he hurts, as long as he furthers his career.Look at him in crisis core, with his creepy laugh as zack goes into the virtual mode machine.

Second:A tragic hero connected to the story works.The monster in frankenstein, wasn't the thing revived, it was the doctor, so it could be made to work.

Personally, i think sephiroth is a bad villain.I did not find him believable, and i felt nothing for the party, except for cid and zach.I liked zach a whol lot more than overrated cloud strife.

... FF7 is the best selling, highest rated and most downloaded Game in history. That speaks for itself, and i along with many people feel that the game couldn't have been done better.

Please provide proof from a reputable website to back up this claim.


hater.. im guessing u were in the late 20's early 30's when this came out... you couldnt handle the advancements from snes to playstation haha. that is why alot of ppl that dis the game is because they were older an couldnt handle the breakthrough tech of the ps 1, is 14 buttons 2 much for you bud? like my mom, shes a beast at atari but when i hand her the double joystick ps 1 controler she dont know what to do. either thats ur problem or your to young an never got to experience it before the ps 3 an 360 came out...See i was 9 years old when this came out it was everything i was lookiing for. an my mom got it for christmas for me along with a brand new playstation..i was brought up on games like zelda and pitfall.. most kids around my age were brought up on toy story and sports games...

I don't usually back up nostalgia gamer, however I do agree with him regarding FFVII. You say you were 9 years old when this game came out, well, back in 1997 when it was released I was 19 and even then I thought while it was a ok game, it was nothing really special as there were other games which were superior imo at that time (I'm talking about on the PC... Hell, Breath of Fire II was better than this). The game now IS overrated by those who think it's the second coming of Christ and think it's the epitome of the perfect game. It didn't deserve the prequels, sequels etc or even that damn movie. Sephiroth was the biggest momma's boy ever, Cloud was a dupe for 90% of the game and the rest... psssh.

There are multiple reasons why people don't like this game, conversely there are reason why people love it. What I despise is when the people from the latter group still say to this day, 15 years after this game's release, that it is superior to other games available now.

Side note FF7genie, work on your spelling and grammar. That post of yours was atrocious to read.

You and i agree about a lot of stuff on FFXIII.Thing is though, i never played knights of the old republic, so i have no opinion on it yet.So far from what i've seen about FFXII in voice acting and gameplay, it seems leagues better than FFXIII, especially in gameplay.That game is so friggin huge.

Hater...I'm guessing you were in your late 20's/early 30's when this came out... you couldn't handle the advancements from SNES to Playstation, haha. That is why a lot of people diss the game: it is because they were older and couldn't handle the breakthrough technology of the PS1. Are 14 buttons too much for you, bud? It's like my mom; she's a beast at Atari but when I hand her the double-joystick PS1 controller, she doesn't know what to do. Either that's your problem or you're too young and never got to experience it before the PS3 and 360 came out... See, I was 9 years old when this came out and it was everything I was looking for. And [Don't begin a sentence with "and"] my mom got it for Christmas for me along with a brand new Playstation...I was brought up on games like Zelda and Pitfall, whereas most kids around my age were brought up on Toy Story and sports games...


FF7genie, work on your spelling and grammar. That post of yours was atrocious to read.

Seconded.

By the way, FF7genie, if you were 9 years old when Final Fantasy 7 came out and posted this atrocious message in 2012, that means you're 24 years old and writing like an eight-year-old. Please proof-read your posts, and don't include god-awful poor writing that makes it difficult to figure out what you're saying, especially if your point is just, "I was young, you were old, I got it, you didn't."

I have a few things to point out ff7genie

1:My age is not 100% important.Besides:20-30 in 97? not even close.I was from the beginning of final fantasy.I can enjoy a game, but it depends on what i like.Granted, i don't like whiny melodramatic teen soap opera, and i don't like anime.I never got into it, so i wouldn't be interested in it now.

2:You should pay respect to us older generation.What are you, an ageist or something? I might have more experience than you, since you also gain a different perspective with age.I for an example, i apreciate some wrpgs, because of my exposure years.I am also less jaded than some of the younger generation.Thing is, ff7 and up, brought teen japanimation rpgs with bad melodrama.The late 90's was the beginning, but things went downhill for final fantasy, after enix bought them, and ruined for me a series i loved.When i see S.E, i see corporations trying to cash in on popular titles, and ruin their reputation with linear interactive movies with boring teen jpop, like FFXIII.If they want my vote, they will need to earn my faith in the serie, by making a game that is as fun to play, as it is interesting in story.

3:I played wrpgs, and jrpgs.I even played jrpgs from other companies.How many games from other companies do you play, other than square enix? If you only stick to one company, you may want to try others, because there are some great series out there.I personally really like kings field series.It has this dark creepy overtone, and the second game is way better.Suikoden series, is made by konami, which also made metal gear solid series.

4:You shouldn't be so hostile to someone's opinions.Instead of flamming and trolling me, try and convincing me by pointing out thing.If you fail, it is possible thatI already made up my mind, in which we will need to agree to disagree, or your point fails because you failed to make any good points.Shouting obsceneties at me while flamming will not help you, as i will not be threatened into submission.The spanish inquisition was over hundreds of years ago.

5:My spelling is obviously far from perfect, and i think you should take it slowly to correct your grammatical errors.

Do you guys admit that kefka has way more dialogue and appearance?

Yep. I admit he had way more dumb dialogue and sissy appearance.

Seriously, I only think about Kefka when thinking about the worst fiction villains ever. To me, comparing him to Sephiroth (or any other villain, for that matter) is either joking or trolling.

What I think (my 2 cents) is that FFVII sucks. And not because is cool to say it. Look, at that point I had played FF1, 4 (6) and other RPGs. I didn't know back then that FFVII marked the end of an era and the begining of the "pretty boys with 'deep' problems" that has plagued RPGs since then, but I perceived something had changed in that moment. Obviosly for me it was more related to presentation and graphics. For me, FFVII won an entire generation because it blowed their minds: the settings, the world, the story, the characters, the music, etc. It doesn't plainly sucks, because it has many, many good elements, but honestly it wasn't THAT great. It's just that there wasn't anything like that. It has to earn some respect for what it did in that POINT in history. What it represented to RPGs, to gaming in general. Was it REALLY a good game. No. I can't possibly have the time, nor the resources to point every flaw, every mistake it commits because I'm not an expert and some people (like Pitchfork at Socksmakespeoplesexy) have done better. Let's just say that I appreciate that the particular moment in time it was released was the perfect oportunity to engrave itself in the position everyone remembers.

Dear AFMG:

Some peopl hate specific characters.I can't stand cloud because of his personality, and ill gotten fame by cult fanboys.Sephiroth, because:In my opinion, he would make a good hero with his tragic past.If any ff7 character is underrated, its cid highwind, and hojo.

Toppoz doesn't care for ff6, and i have seen videos of people who hate squall with a passion.Spoony hates everything about FFX, and i find it to be irrational.Maybe i am too, but some people share my hatred of the card queen, and elleone, some hate ff7 as well.

I find FFXII characters far more enjoyable than FFXIII, with female cloud, and crybaby hope, and annoying selphie clone named vanille, who was far far less annoying than the others.Something about hope reminds me of raiden in the metal gear solid series, but i don't like raiden.

Dear AFMG:
Some peopl hate specific characters.I can't stand Cloud because of his personality, and ill gotten fame by cult fanboys.Sephiroth, because:In my opinion, he would make a good hero with his tragic past.If any ff7 character is underrated, its cid highwind, and hojo.

I think they weren't THAT bad to begin with, but as I told earlier, they weren't as well developed as other FF characters in past games: Cloud has something going on, but ends up as a blank slate. Sephirot had the chance to be more complex, but being the villain, had to succumb to the insane plot. The worst thing is the fandom that spawned from those characters and then the "re-work" Square Enix did to those characters because of the fandom.

I think they weren't THAT bad to begin with, but as I told earlier, they weren't as well developed as other FF characters in past games: Cloud has something going on, but ends up as a blank slate. Sephirot had the chance to be more complex, but being the villain, had to succumb to the insane plot. The worst thing is the fandom that spawned from those characters and then the "re-work" Square Enix did to those characters because of the fandom.

Cloud acted like an ass, and felt sorry for himself.His and sephiroth fanboys/girls, add a new level of annoyance amongst mixed genres, and that says a lot.There are people, like me, who think it is somewhere on the top 10 most overrated games of all time.For me, the fifa soccer games are there too.Anyways, the reaction to said fanbase and game says a lot.The bigger the reaction, the bigger deal it becomes, because it means that a lot of gamers are disatisfied.

...(like Pitchfork at Socksmakespeoplesexy)...

Thanks for referring this guy to us. I had never heard of this reviewer or read his reviews but they're very good. I really like them.

Thanks for referring this guy to us. I had never heard of this reviewer or read his reviews but they're very good. I really like them.

There are lot of reviews there that are very well crafted and well-balanced. It's one of my favorite sites. The whole review for the Final Fantasy saga is worth a reading.

Seconded.

By the way, FF7genie, if you were 9 years old when Final Fantasy 7 came out and posted this atrocious message in 2012, that means you're 24 years old and writing like an eight-year-old. Please proof-read your posts, and don't include god-awful poor writing that makes it difficult to figure out what you're saying, especially if your point is just, "I was young, you were old, I got it, you didn't."






i didnt sign up on the forum to impress anybody with my grammer...i didnt master my keyboard yet..however i did master my sticks...im not here to go through everydamn word i type an make sure its spelled correctly for you, i didn't ask you to waste 10 minutes of you're life to read my post about why most people didn't like ff7..so why did you have too go an try to insult me? what was the point...oo let me guess its probably because i only have 70 posts right compared to you're 70,000? that u have to try an be a smart ass no it all mr. im so good at typing on my keyboard......it's funny that 2 people had something to say about my grammer...ur not me dudes, don't worry about the way i type, if it really bothers you....don't read it, and if you do read it....how about you dont be an inconsiderate piece of dung and try to make fun of people about it....my guess is, this is more then likely one of many times u guys insulted someone about there grammer.....don't be a jerk about it..if u knew me in real life i'd make you shit in you're panties. thank you have a nice day, follow up with something a little bit more considerate next time...u never know what u might run into when u go outside.
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Okay, that's enough FF7Genie. Although I disagree with members flaming each other, on this site we try to maintain a fairly decent standard of grammar and syntax - even if you're using a smartphone/portable device, it is no excuse for a level of grammar in your post that is the equivalent of a five year old. Your previous post was indeed a pain to read, and Olde, Revan and Nostalgia Gamer were quite right in being critical about it.

However, I do not agree with members attacking each other, so guys and ladies, there is to be no more flaming - as this thread has been derailed enough as it is. I really don't want to start banning people and having to lock/delete this thread, but I will if this sort of petty behavior continues. Remember, play nice! :)

Okay, that's enough FF7Genie. Although I disagree with members flaming each other, on this site we try to maintain a fairly decent standard of grammar and syntax - even if you're using a smartphone/portable device, it is no excuse for a level of grammar in your post that is the equivalent of a five year old. Your previous post was indeed a pain to read, and Olde, Revan and Nostalgia Gamer were quite right in being critical about it.

However, I do not agree with members attacking each other, so guys and ladies, there is to be no more flaming - as this thread has been derailed enough as it is. I really don't want to start banning people and having to lock/delete this thread, but I will if this sort of petty behavior continues. Remember, play nice! :)

sorry man...it just tics me off when some people think there better then others..........wont happen again, i usually dont do that unless im attacked first wich in this case i was....all i was asking is for them to be a little more considerate. Hey genie, do you think maybe you could check over you're post next time? thank you..... thats all it takes, didnt have to be ignorant about it.....

sorry man...it just tics me off when some people think there better then others..........wont happen again, i usually dont do that unless im attacked first wich in this case i was....all i was asking is for them to be a little more considerate. Hey genie, do you think maybe you could check over you're post next time? thank you..... thats all it takes, didnt have to be ignorant about it.....

I never attacked you, i only kindly pointed out a few things.I prefer not to fight.Insulting won't get your opinion through, just cause trouble.It is the strategy of a person who doesn't know how to create valid points.

I still disagree with you. agree to disagree?

I liked the change in villains in FF7. I think that allowed the game to be played in a sort of 'arc' type structure. You finish the Shinra Opression Arc and then move onto, well, saving the damn world from Sephiroth and Meteor. I can't make comments on some of the other things because I truly never took Final Fantasy 7's story as seriously as I probably should have. It was a fantastic game for sure but the only reason I liked it was because of the fantastic set pieces, the music and the characters personalities and designs.

The story took a back seat for me in 7. It was a pretty simple story at that, when looked at from a wider point of view. But there is one thing I can comment on - I think Sephiroth was meant to be surrounded in mystery and suspense. His thought processes were largely unknown for a lot of the game, whilst Clouds character was more developed, that way we're more attached to Cloud than Sephiroth. I think some girls are more attached to Sephiroth but I digress.

There are a few things that makes the game less memorable for me.

I never liked sephiroths backstory.I found that there simply wasn't enough screentime to convince me he was so bad.It seemed like a hissy fit.He was good, then nibleheim happened, then evil.

Clouds melodrama annoys me.What people see in him, i don't know.Barret, cid and tifa seemed more fleshed out.Cloud with his self pitty, and melodrama made me wish i could ditch him, or recruit sephiroth and kill cloud.Sure he was a bit self confident, but its natural, like male competition, some of which is testosterone.

Cid was my favourite in ff7, and the one i relate to the most.I feel genuinely sorry for him.The music works perfectly to relate that feeling of someone who is bitter, knowing they will never achieve their dream.I don't condone what he did to shera, but i understand it.

Cloud was awesome in the final disc. I mean come on he says "Let's mosey". CLOUD SAID THAT. It's Square Enix that keep on dragging him back down to being depressing. Sure he has perfectly good reasons to be that way. Let's face it the guys fucked up. But like, he over comes it in the end and becomes a happy chappy and BAM. Advent Children - Sad and annoyign again.

Again with the FFVII Hate and Fanboyism Clash.

It never ends, It never gets old. But is still as stupid and tiring as it ever was and always be.

Why I think ff7 fails

Yet you played it enough to have completed it and have pointed out your favourite characters. Something was drawing you in to play it for hours and hours. I would hardly call that a fail. If a video game fails you get bored with it fast and never feel compelled to play it again.

The lack of screentime for Sephiroth works to the games merit. That was actually one of my favourite aspects of the whole game. It creates suspense and an amount of mystery and the unknown surrounding him. You learn just enough to know he's selfish and will kill / cause mayhem to get what he wants no matter the cost and just knowing he's out there, but never knowing when he might strike... it provokes you to use your imagination, and I was in my imagination through most of the game. That is when a game wins. When it's a good game by itself, but it brings the players imagination into it as well.

Again with the FFVII Hate and Fanboyism Clash.

It never ends, It never gets old. But is still as stupid and tiring as it ever was and always be.

I made up my mind, and you can't change that.Sure, the ff7 fanboys has some influence, but that is because i genuinely don't get what people see in cloud.I felt way more empathy towards freya in ff9, or cecil in ff4, or even yuna in FFX.I also can't stand cait sith.I don't like quina or zidane, but zidane seems a bit childish, because one of the things only things he thinks of, is girls.Sure, edgar in ff6 goes after girls, but he also worries about his kingdom, his brother, and what kefka is capable of doing to his kingdom.I can understand vivi, because he found out that he has an expiration date, and he was made as a pawn of war.It raises questions of ethics.I think squall is interesting, but more towards his personality, rather than his backstory.He is quite introverted, while seifer is the opposite.I don't care for seifer though.

Hmm , Sephiroth aside... one problem I had with the game was that the death of you-know-who-I-mean didn't have much of an impact to me. Simply because the time you were sharing with that person didn't consist of enough memorable moments until that moment. It felt like a NPC dying, since I didn't care much. :\

... FF7 is the best selling, highest rated and most downloaded Game in history. That speaks for itself, and i along with many people feel that the game couldn't have been done better.
And Madden sells well year after year...despite being mediocre as hell.

ff7 is playable, but it didn't leave as much impression as ff4, and ff6, or even ff9.I try to beat all games, even the ones i don't like.I put down ff8 so many times, that i forced myself to play the last time till i won.I had fun at times, but i have no desire to replay it, and its lower than ff7 on the charts.Actually, FFVIII and FXIII are the last games i want to play.

i absolutely love FF7, which is so far the only FF i've played, and it's one of my all-time favourite games. i'll happily admit that it's got plenty of flaws though; the ending with holy, the meteor, the lifestream etc. is confusing, cait sith's a shit character, if you grind - and get the KOTR summon - then the final battle with sephiroth is literally effortless while the optional bosses, emerald and ruby weapons, are absolute monsters many times tougher then seph;

i think your particular criticisms don't really count though, at least not objectively, mr nostalgia gamer.

1. cloud actually grows into a more heroic mould, from the dour, soulless, unassuming mercenary you start the game as. it turns out he had the stones to stand up to sephiroth at nibelheim, and then he grows those stones again for the game's finale. the compilation titles, including sequel AC, made him dour, wretched and wracked with emotional problems again, which was an unnecessary step backwards, but in FF7 he underwent a growth of character, as far as i remember

2. the fact that we thought shinra was the big bad until it became evident that jenova was missing and sephiroth was a third party, spoken of in fearful tones and not seen directly, but rather followed by your party, who tracked him by the trail of dead bodies he left behind, was awesome. do you honestly see that as a negative? were you not hyped to fuck when you saw that massive fucking snake impaled on a redwood?? weren't you like 'holy shit, sephiroth must be pretty nails, look what he did to that snake!!' because i was. it enhanced him as a villain for me. and when you finally reach him at the north crater and it turns out some things weren't as they seemed, well, that went ahead and enhanced him some more. he was fucking with you from the start! that's a proper villain mate.

3. if you didn't feel much connection to the characters, i guess you just didn't vibe off the characterisation; i did, and i also felt compelled to track sephiroth down and find out what the hell was going on. i didn't particularly hate him until later on, when more was revealed and i wanted to take him down. i rated him as a character and villain because of that. but this point is an exceedingly subjective one at any rate.

4. i agree with you about the ending, which destroyed the awesome north crater for one - that's a place i'd love to have explored some more and enjoyed - and also didn't make too much sense to me. the bit with red XIII in the far future was tantalising for me though.

anyway, i see a lot of absolute hate and absolute love for this game and i don't get either; it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and i can see why some people hate things that i love about it, such as the characters or certain plot twists or the game mechanics or whatever. it's not a complete train-wreck either; it's got great points and poor points objectively and subjectively. i happen to love it enough to forgive the downsides i perceive it to have, because i really enjoyed the characters and the story and the experience of the game. others will have a different view. discuss!

This is why I think that Final Fantasy: VII doesn't fails.

Sephiroth is connected to all the characters:

He tried to destroy their home using a meteor, that's why they went to kill him.
That One-Winged Angel HARMED them, he killed their friend Aeris.

Cloud is kinda innocent but a likeable character:

I felt sorry for him, he acted cool because he knew that he was a loser, that's why he had to lie (he believed in that lie), or something like that. After Tifa discovered the truth, he acted more nicely (that makes him a little bit innocent).

Ending: All I know is that the characters died and joined the Lifestream or the planet (Gaia hypothesis), if they got married or something like that, I think it's up to the player. The most important thing is that people learned to live with nature, that's why Midgar was covered with leaves and you could hear some kids laughing.

Maybe you don't see the game as a full body: Gameplay, plot, music and visuals.

Maybe you just hate Final Fantasy: VII because of the annoying fanboys and fangirls.

Sephiroth goes from good guy, to bad guy.Its unrealistic.We feared and hated kefka from the start, because the game gave us a glimpse of more than one action.Same with most villains, excep that kuja and golbez weren't the main villains, which sucks.Let me explain what evil is:evil is the will to do harm for selfish reasons, and complete lack of empathy, like barthandalus, except he was rendered innefective, because i didn't like or care about any character in the end.A lot of similar reasons for why ff7 fails.

FF7 created annoying tropes
Its story had some good moments, but many which it was an incoherent mess.
Cloud for me was a bland hero who was anime ish, and i didn't care enough for the characters to forgive them.
The sephiroth development is stupid, no offense.He was good, then bad with no time developing him from the transition between good and bad.gafgarion was more believable, because we see him betray us directly and turn his back on us, and he continues to be a traitor.Sephiroth felt more like hannible lector, and he wasn't evil, just messed up.

The faboys girls:This is why it is the most overrated rpg of all time, and why it gets so much hate, and is continued to be milked by square enix.FFXIII isn't overrated, itis just plain hated most of the time, like ff8.If it wasn't for the faboys and fangirls, we wouldn't see so many prequels sequals and movies and books.Also:The 120 dollars for a 15 year old game.100 dollars and up for a 15 year old game, is messed up.20 bucks is reasonable, but not over 100.

kuja and golbez weren't the main villains, which sucks.Let me explain what evil is:evil is the will to do harm for selfish reasons, and complete lack of empathy, like barthandalus, except he was rendered innefective

Kuja is not the main villain? No more spoilers for FFIX, please. Barthandelus? He sucked (the game and music too), he died and then a stronger being appeared: Orphan, the talking knife (this is Final Fantasy not Beauty and the Beast).


Cloud for me was a bland hero who was anime ish
The sephiroth development is stupid, no offense.He was good, then bad with no time developing him from the transition between good and bad.

Claoud is animeish? Why?

To me both Kefka and Sephiroth are more tha villains, they are the most complex characters in a video game:

I don't remember so much but didn't Sephiroth read some books and then discovered his origins and all the J-E-N-O-V-A stuff? Maybe he was shocked and sad because everyone was destroying Earth (that's why he killed Rufus' father) and he gained a lot of knowledge (take a look at his Super Nova attack, some equations and symbols), if that's true he was just like Kefka, he suffered the most knowing a lot:

Kefka: "Life... Dreams... Hope... Where do the come from and where do the go?" Not many villains ask questions like that.
Sephiroth: He went berserk after being exposed to some information in that library and Hojo's work.

Both used to be innocent, Kefka a wise man and Sephiroth a baby that was modified by Hojo. Look at their final forms a god and an angel, and the place where the final battle happened, heaven.

I'm not sure if I can get rid of my thread about Kefka being the worst villain ever.


The faboys girls:This is why it is the most overrated rpg of all time, and why it gets so much hate, and is continued to be milked by square enix.FFXIII isn't overrated, itis just plain hated most of the time, like ff8.If it wasn't for the faboys and fangirls, we wouldn't see so many prequels sequals and movies and books.Also:The 120 dollars for a 15 year old game.100 dollars and up for a 15 year old game, is messed up.20 bucks is reasonable, but not over 100.

Have you read my thread about FFVII? I have an explantion for the milking. Yes, my thread sucked but now is fixed.
FFXIII is overrated, you can find shit like this: "If you don't like the the FFs go and play the old ones. Changes are good."

The hate the game receives is just from jealous people look at their immature comments.

Kuja is not the main villain? No more spoilers for FFIX, please. Barthandelus? He sucked (the game and music too), he died and then a stronger being appeared: Orphan, the talking knife (this is Final Fantasy not Beauty and the Beast).

He may not be complex, but you don't need complexity to be effective, just need a good story to be interesting.You saying that villains like:lex luthor, or darth vader are complex? cause i sure don't think so.Also:caring about the characters makes villains more effective.


Claoud is animeish? Why?

To me both Kefka and Sephiroth are more tha villains, they are the most complex characters in a video game:

Kefka and sephiroth a different:kefka is just worse, cause we see him enjoy watching people suffer.

I don't remember so much but didn't Sephiroth read some books and then discovered his origins and all the J-E-N-O-V-A stuff? Maybe he was shocked and sad because everyone was destroying Earth (that's why he killed Rufus' father) and he gained a lot of knowledge (take a look at his Super Nova attack, some equations and symbols), if that's true he was just like Kefka, he suffered the most knowing a lot:

It happened too fast, and not enough evil.Dahlia gillespie was evil, hojo was really really evil, luca blight was pretty evil.His past was over sympathetic to him, and makes him a victim.

Kefka: "Life... Dreams... Hope... Where do the come from and where do the go?" Not many villains ask questions like that.
Sephiroth: He went berserk after being exposed to some information in that library and Hojo's work.

Both used to be innocent, Kefka a wise man and Sephiroth a baby that was modified by Hojo. Look at their final forms a god and an angel, and the place where the final battle happened, heaven.

Kefka desired magic, so he could have been a megalomaniac.You can be nuts and evil, but a clear line defines lack of empathy, which other villains show more of than sephiroth, like kuja, who is a narcissist, or even rufus and shinra.Both rufus and shinra are so in love with themselves, and cold and calculating, like some heartless business executives in real life.
I'm not sure if I can get rid of my thread about Kefka being the worst villain ever.
I think sephiroth is the third or fourth worse villain in final fantasy.


Have you read my thread about FFVII? I have an explantion for the milking. Yes, my thread sucked but now is fixed.
FFXIII is overrated, you can find shit like this: "If you don't like the the FFs go and play the old ones. Changes are good."

FFXIII is plain bad, and gets more hate than positive feedback.When something that is bad gets more bad rep than good, its hated.
FFX recieves some hate, but is more loved than FFXIII.

The hate the game receives is just from jealous people look at their immature comments.
Some hate, is very justified, while some isn't.It is by no means, a bad game, but it isn't the holy grail either.I have seen people build a moat around their sacred cow(ff7) and become hostile to criticism.On the other hand, some people go too far to bash it, and make stupid comparations and generalisations, like:if you like this game, your stupid, or pacman or halo is better than x game.These things i heard people say is stupid.

The game needs a remake, and thatis it.No more prequels/sequels, or spin offs.Also, one proof that ff7 is the most overrated final fantasy, is the amount of cash ins.No other game in the series has that many, cept ff7.

I took a long break but I'm back...

Justified hate? People hate the fanboys/girls not the game.

A remake? No, it will suck just like FFXIII, FFXIII-2 and maybe FFVsXIII.

Cash ins:

1.- Thanks to the promos by Squaresoft, a lot people bought the game to give it a try and they loved it (that's why JRPGs became popular).

2.- Fans bought it because they like the series.

To me, FFVI and FFVII killed the series, take a look at past titles, what happened to the crystals, mages and knights? The original concept was lost till FFIX was developed:

Hironobu Sakaguchi said that FFIX is his favorite because it's closest to his ideal view of what Final Fantasy should be. I just started playing FFIX but it's different to FFVI and FFVII.

In my opinion, he went too far with FFVI and FFVII: the plots are a lot more interesting and complex while the past titles were just a nice fantasy story. Obviously the gameplay became better.

That's what I think.

You sure flipflop around a lot.One minute you think ff7 doesn't deserve criticism, and the next minute you bash it.

As i said:Some, not all is justified anger towards ff7.Some believe, with myself included, that it doesn't live up to a lot of hype it gets.Some of it is towards the fanboys/fangirls who are half to blame, and i think ff7 lead down the mainstream path to mediocrity, but not badville.FF8 was the first in the series that made it difficult to play with the junction system, and slow moving plot with endless chatter.FF9 i arguably liked more than ff7.

Square enix promised a remake, and gave fans sequels and prequels instead, and the fans are getting annoyed with the waiting, just like FFXIII versus.
They should make it, and then move on forever, and link and fix any plotholes and inconsistancies.

FFXIII recieves massive backlash.It recieves more than ff8, and the biggest hype, is from reviewers who are professional.To me, its just plain hated, and more people i've seen hated it than like it.

FF7 was different.At first, it recieved very little backlash, and many years later, it became a controversy on the internet.There are still some who blindly declare it as flawless, which is a fallacy, because i love ff6, but its far from flawless. and there are ways to improve things.I thought, and still think that dragon age origins has better characters than final fantasy ever did, and that includes ff6.

I wasn't even gonna bother with replying in this thread again, til I read this:


Square enix promised a remake, and gave fans sequels and prequels instead, and the fans are getting annoyed with the waiting, just like FFXIII versus.
They should make it, and then move on forever, and link and fix any plotholes and inconsistancies.

Where did you read that? Where dd SE promise to remake FFVII?! Last I heard, Yoichi Wada, the CEO of Square Enix stated categorically that there would NOT be a FFVII remake until they've made a FF game which surpasses FFVII... which with the last few FF's (FFXIII, XIII-2, XII, X and X-2 (Not including FFXIO or FFXIVO as they are MMO's)) and how they were received, I seriously doubt that'll EVER happen. SE should just come out and say "We will never remake FFVII at all" and focus on newer titles instead of whoring out their one big hit wonder... Wada even admits that that current FF games aren't up to VII's quality.

Source Link: No Final Fantasy VII Remake Until Original Has Been Topped -- Square Enix CEO (http://andriasang.com/con1ny/wada_on_ffvii_remake/)


FFXIII recieves massive backlash.It recieves more than ff8, and the biggest hype, is from reviewers who are professional.To me, its just plain hated, and more people i've seen hated it than like it.

There's a few reasons why FFXIII has all this backlash. The linearity of the plot, unlikable characters (looking at the whiny crybaby and excessively kooky characters here...), lack of plot development until late in the story, gameplay being almost without player input (Controling only one character instead of the whole party) amidst other things In short, SE tried too hard to make the game appeal to a broader audience, without really working on anything else for the game.

Again I refer to Yahtzee's review of FFXIII on Zero Punctuation, as being rather accurate in his review of FFXIII... probably one of the oly reviews about this game I agree with 110%...

Link : Zero Punctuation reviews Final Fantasy XIII (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1569-Final-Fantasy-XIII)


FF7 was different.At first, it recieved very little backlash, and many years later, it became a controversy on the internet.There are still some who blindly declare it as flawless, which is a fallacy, because i love ff6, but its far from flawless. and there are ways to improve things.I thought, and still think that dragon age origins has better characters than final fantasy ever did, and that includes ff6.

Because at the time (In 1997) it was the RPG credited with bringing the RPG genre out from the niche market, into the mainstream gaming audience. It is NOT flawless as there is no such thing as a 'perfect' game and there never will be. FFVII will always be remembered fondly by gamers, especially those who played it when it was released in 1997... but those gamers are older now and probably aren't as interested in it anymore... hence all the 'newcomers' to the FF series (PS2 and onwards) are the ones who are mainly clamoring for a remake. Some may have valid reasons but the majority of them want FFVII to have the graphics of games nowadays, to be more realistic etc. While that's fine in some regards, if that is the only reason, then I say go and play another game. To those damnable fanboys/girls I say this: FFVII was a good game, but now over the past decade, there are more games now which are just as good or even better than FFVII. Stop treating it like the Second coming of Christ and deal with it, it's done, not going to be remade so move on.

Also, with a remake, ther is no guarantee that it'll be a 100% faithful recreation of the 1997 game. It's been 15 years since it's release, and I'm pretty sure that the team which worked on FFVII probably are either A: No longer employed by SE (Nobuo Uematsu no longer works for them full time, but on a freelancer basis last I heard), B: Working on other projects in the company. Which means the newer team would inevitably introduce new things to the game in it's development. Look at how Vincent Valentine's history was rewritten in Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII... as that was made by a completely different team as well.

The whole 'Compilation of Final Fantasy VII' was something that Hironobu Sakaguchi never wanted for the savior of Square. Each FF was meant to be a complete and whole game in their own right, none of this prequel/sequel/spinoff garbage. However, with his leaving of SE, obviously the higher ups decided to go into the 'Player In Management Profession' and use their biggest hit to go out onto the street corner to turn tricks and bring in the green... like it did fifteen years ago, despite being old and worn out...

The best thing SE could do... put the nail in FFVII's coffin and say that they're never going to remake it and end all this talk of remake bullshit and focus on making games with better characters and story.

Seconded.

By the way, FF7genie, if you were 9 years old when Final Fantasy 7 came out and posted this atrocious message in 2012, that means you're 24 years old and writing like an eight-year-old. Please proof-read your posts, and don't include god-awful poor writing that makes it difficult to figure out what you're saying, especially if your point is just, "I was young, you were old, I got it, you didn't."

You missed some corrections. 20s and 30s don't need apostrophes. c:

---------- Post added at 05:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 PM ----------


i didnt sign up on the forum to impress anybody with my grammer...i didnt master my keyboard yet..however i did master my sticks...im not here to go through everydamn word i type an make sure its spelled correctly for you, i didn't ask you to waste 10 minutes of you're life to read my post about why most people didn't like ff7..so why did you have too go an try to insult me? what was the point...oo let me guess its probably because i only have 70 posts right compared to you're 70,000? that u have to try an be a smart ass no it all mr. im so good at typing on my keyboard......it's funny that 2 people had something to say about my grammer...ur not me dudes, don't worry about the way i type, if it really bothers you....don't read it, and if you do read it....how about you dont be an inconsiderate piece of dung and try to make fun of people about it....my guess is, this is more then likely one of many times u guys insulted someone about there grammer.....don't be a jerk about it..if u knew me in real life i'd make you shit in you're panties. thank you have a nice day, follow up with something a little bit more considerate next time...u never know what u might run into when u go outside.
\

Fixed.


I didn't sign up on the forum to impress anybody with my grammar -- I haven't mastered my keyboard yet. However, I have mastered my sticks.

I'm not here to go through every damn word I type and make sure it's spelled correctly for you; I didn't ask you to waste 10 minutes of your life to read my post about why most people don't like FF7, so why did you have to go and try to insult me? What was the point? Oh, let me guess! It's probably because I only have 70 posts currently compared to your 70,000? Why do you have to try and be a smartass, Mr. Know It All?

I'm not so good at typing on my keyboard; it's funny that two people had to say something about my grammar. You're not me, dudes; don't worry about the way I type. If it really bothers you, don't read it; if you do read it, how about you don't be an inconsiderate piece of dung and try to make fun of people about it? My guess is you've insulted people about their grammar before. Don't be a jerk about it. If you knew me in real life, I'd make you shit in you're panties.

Thank you; have a nice day. Follow up with something a little bit more considerate next time, because you never know what you might run into when you go outside.

EDIT: Anyway, I personally like FFVII. I don't pay a lot of attention to every small thing in regards to what could have been better.

It's like TV shows and musicians. I like things like Justin Bieber and SpongeBob SquarePants because I don't look for every little thing that may be wrong with those to hate.

You sure flipflop around a lot.One minute you think ff7 doesn't deserve criticism, and the next minute you bash it.

Remember that my english is not perfect, sometimes I don't know which words I should use. What I meant to say with "killed" is that those two titles are completly different from the other ones, those games changed Final Fantasy.


Some believe, with myself included, that it doesn't live up to a lot of hype it gets.

You're right, it doesn't deserve all that hype but it doesn't deserve hate. How can we like or hate something that we do not understand? (Kefka is more than a maniac and Sephiroth is more than a great fighter). I liked FFVI and FFVII as games but their plots are what confuses me, with stories like those ones is not easy to get a conclusion.


FFXIII recieves massive backlash.It recieves more than ff8, and the biggest hype, is from reviewers who are professional.To me, its just plain hated, and more people i've seen hated it than like it.

Gladly, you win this time :P only normal fans liked that garbage, the stupid fanboys/girls will never tell the truth.


Square enix promised a remake, and gave fans sequels and prequels instead, and the fans are getting annoyed with the waiting, just like FFXIII versus.

It got re-realesed for PC, nothing special. It's too late for a true remake, the Nintendo DS was the best option for every FF, even for FFVII. Maybe Square Enix tried to develop the remake for PS3 (Epic Win) but Hironobu Sakaguchi didn't let them do that (Epic Fail). At the end, the good guy won and that's all that matters to me.

I'd like to paly Final Fantasy: Versus XIII, it looks so gay that Tetsuya Gaymura will have to come out of the closet.

Its because a lot of people are tired of it being whored out.

The game should get a remaster, then leave it alone.FFX is getting a remaster.

As for promises:yeah, i made a mistake.They said they would litterally remake the world from scratch from ground up, or so i heard

It got re-realesed for PC, nothing special. It's too late for a true remake, the Nintendo DS was the best option for every FF, even for FFVII. Maybe Square Enix tried to develop the remake for PS3 (Epic Win) but Hironobu Sakaguchi didn't let them do that (Epic Fail). At the end, the good guy won and that's all that matters to me.

The Re-release has a few 'extras'. First being 'Achievements' to "show off your in-game accomplishments and put your gaming skills to the test with 36 brand new achievements to unlock." Think along the lines of the Achievements/Trophies for Xbox 360/PS3. Second, "Character Booster:, which sounds a lot like the 'JENOVA' system for the original PC release which functions like a Action Replay/Gameshark device to "increase your HP, MP and Gil levels to their maximum, all with the simple click of a button, leaving you to enjoy your adventure." Finally, "Cloud Saves"... This is where you need to keep your online connection to be able to play this version (IMO a limitation to the original PC version).

All in all though (and just my opinion here), this is just pandering to the fan(atic)s and keeping the delluded hope of a remake alive. As Yochi Wada said in the article in my earlier post, SE's not going to do a FFVII remake until the quality of FF games now and future releases, eclipse that of FFVII... which'll never happen.

Also, if you are referring to the PS3 tech demo of the opening of FFVII as being evidence that FFVII was being done for the PS3... then you are wrong. It was just to show the technical capabilities of the PS3, that's all. Had nothing to do with Hironobu Sakaguchi not wanting it done at all.


Its because a lot of people are tired of it being whored out.

In a sense, most people I know personally, feel FFVII's time is long over and it should be laid to rest.


The game should get a remaster, then leave it alone.FFX is getting a remaster.

No, it shouldn't. Should be left as it is and left alone. IMO, all FF's after they are initially released, should be left as they are...


As for promises:yeah, i made a mistake.They said they would litterally remake the world from scratch from ground up, or so i heard

If they do that, then it won't be a remake then would it? All they would do then, would open themselves up to a fan outcry to rival what happened to BioWare earlier this year with Mass Effect 3.

Also... it used to be a bannable offense to talk about a FFVII remake when Neo Xzhan was in charge of the Final Fantasy discussion forums here, and even former Moderator Agent0042 looked negatively on any FFVII remake threads as well and closed them immediately. Not sure what the current Moderator of this forum will do (That being Enkidoh), but you may want to wind up any talk of a FFVII remake PDQ... just to be safe.

The Re-release has a few 'extras'.

I don't think that those extras doesn't worth someone's money, specially if that soemone can download the game free.


Also, if you are referring to the PS3 tech demo of the opening of FFVII as being evidence that FFVII was being done for the PS3... then you are wrong. It was just to show the technical capabilities of the PS3, that's all. Had nothing to do with Hironobu Sakaguchi not wanting it done at all.

Leaving FFVII as a demo, knowing that fans would pay for a remake doesn't make sense. The Hironobu Sakaguch thing was just a supposition, nothing more.

I don't think that those extras doesn't worth someone's money, specially if that soemone can download the game free.

To get the Re-release, it's only available at SE's online store as a PC Digital Download only, at this time for $11.99 (America and Australia) �9.99 / €12.99 (Europe and everywhere else). Even to download it on the PSN, incurs a fee as well. As far as I know, you can't download it for free from any reputable online store...


Leaving FFVII as a demo, knowing that fans would pay for a remake doesn't make sense. The Hironobu Sakaguch thing was just a supposition, nothing more.

It was only to show the graphical capabilities of the PlayStation 3, that's all.. and it was only the opening scene, no actual gameplay at all. It was NOT a 'teaser' for a PS3 remake of the game, and there likely won't be a remake at all (read the article I linked in my earlier post on this page about SE's CEO Yoichi Wada and his declaration)... and your supposition, without any evidence to back it up, is rather foolish. Hironobu Sakaguchi has his own company now and is working on other projects, when he quit SE FF stayed with them... not their creator.

It was only to show the graphical capabilities of the PlayStation 3, that's all.. and it was only the opening scene, no actual gameplay at all. It was NOT a 'teaser' for a PS3 remake of the game, and there likely won't be a remake at all (read the article I linked in my earlier post on this page about SE's CEO Yoichi Wada and his declaration)... and your supposition, without any evidence to back it up, is rather foolish. Hironobu Sakaguchi has his own company now and is working on other projects, when he quit SE FF stayed with them... not their creator.

Square Enix can say whatever it want, and people can believe whatever they want.
Bye-bye!

Square Enix can say whatever it want, and people can believe whatever they want.
Bye-bye!

Considering that SE own FF, what they say holds more water than what anyone else thinks.
Good riddance.

1:Sephiroth has the make of a better tragic anti hero than cloud could ever dream of.His past and all would have made him a very tragic hero that you could believe.Instead,he was put in the position as a half ass villain.
I disagree; Sephiroth as an anti-hero would be pretty hard to manage. Consider that the approach to the protagonist in this game is that his history (everything that happened prior to the start of this game) is meant to serve as the primary motivation for the protagonist's action and overall journey. Sure, Cloud get's the extra motivation of revenge when Sephiroth kills Aeris, but in terms of overall story arc, the plot is very much driven by Cloud's journey of self-discovery and his desire to set himself apart as a unique, important warrior in the world. He wants to stop living in Zack's shadow and be recognized for his own strength and achievements. This is all symbolically achieved by destroying Sephiroth, in addition to the more literal goals of saving the goddamn world and avenging the murder of the woman he loved.

I don't think this kind of motivation could be obtained from Sephiroth's backstory; he has nothing to prove and nothing to achieve, he's just angry at the world for what he views as a grave injustice that has been perpetrated against him. I don't know if you've ever played Dungeons and Dragons, but from both a DM and a player's perspective, a player character that despises all life for the injustices the character has suffered is almost impossible to work into a storyline without breaking character. It's just too hard for the player or the DM to come up with a sufficient reason why the character would put aside such a deeply rooted hatred to benefit those he/she hates. Video games work pretty much the same way; given Sephiroth's history and his response to discovering the whole JENOVA secret, I can't see any way that Sephiroth could become anything other than a villian.

There's also the problem of protagonist growth: the main character in any game, book or movie, needs to go through some sort of personal growth. In RPG's that growth is two-fold; First the character becomes stronger through the battles he/she fights until they are capable of facing the final boss, and second the character experiences some major personal growth. Cloud finds his identity and becomes a person of his own, rather than just pretending to be Zack. Sephiroth *could* have some character growth in the personal growth area, but at the start of the game he's the strongest SOLDIER, and pretty much the most powerful individual in the world. There's no opportunity for him to grow stronger; he's already the baddest dude alive.

You also said he's a half-ass villain, but I disagree here as well; Sephiroth manipulates Cloud constantly with visions and illusions, and is constantly just out of reach. He's almost taunting Cloud through the entire game, engaging in some pretty heavy psychological warfare.

2:The villain gets nowhere near enough screen time and dialogue to develop the relationship between all characters.Do you guys admit that kefka has way more dialogue and appearance? After all:When is the first time we see sephiroth? first sign is at shinra hq,and even then we don't see him.Next timeream sequence of him.This scene alone proves that sephiroth would have made a better hero than a villain,along with the scene where he talks about his mother and feels sad and gets angry at being experimented on,besides:How many of you would like to have a main char with a katana? katana weapons are kinda cool.Sephiroth gets a few scenes,and all of them are in the dream sequences.We don't get to see the real one till the very end,and by then:He says nothing at all when we fight him.No motivational speech to hate him,and no speech on anything.

It's a thing called suspense. Horror movies use this kind of "Hide the badguy" technique all the time because it creates a hook for the audience; Who is the badguy? What are his goals, his motivations? What is he capable of? The complete answers to these questions are kept from us, but we are constantly learning more about him through the clues he leaves behind and the instances where he uses his powers.

You made a comparison to Kefka, but Kefka was an entirely different monster; he wasn't an expert warrior, he wasn't someone that would or could go out and accomplish major goals or slay giant monsters, at least not initially. He was powerful, and he wasn't above getting his hands dirty when necessary, but he worked mostly through manipulating others into doing his job for him. Subversion and manipulation were his tools. A character like that HAS to be given a large amount of dialogue and appearance, because his impact on the plot is entirely contained in his dialogue and appearances.

Contrast this with Sephiroth, who regularly kills just about everything in his way because he's the strongest SOLDIER the ever have existed. Put aside his powers of manipulation and you've still got a force of destruction. Hell, the first time you're introduced to Sephiroth is through a trail of blood through the headquarters of the most powerful(only?) political/business entity in the world. The next time you see him, you've just used a Chocobo to outrun a Midgar Zolom, a giant snake that, if you try to just fight, absolutely obliterates your party. What do you see once you've gotten across the swamp where this snake resides? The corpse of a Midgar Zolom on display for you, left by Sephiroth. Sephiroth is a whirlwind of destruction and death. He doesn't waste time with subversion or manipulation to accomplish his major goal with meteor and the lifestream and all that. He's direct and to the point; Kefka would get a ruler to go into the swamp with him, leave the ruler to die to the snake while Kefka sneaks past and simultaneously seizes control of that ruler's country, Sephiroth just walks up and kills the goddamn snake. No elaborate plans or long-winded monologues needed; Sephiroth gets his point across and achieves his goals through his own actions, mostly because he's the most powerful individual in the world.

Again you bring up that his feeling sad/angry about being experimented on would make him a great hero, but he's not really sad so much as mentally unhinged, and angry is a bit of an understatement. He seeks to destroy everyone and everything and become a god. His mental state following the JENOVA discovery is the most realistic possible, but it's a mental state that doesn't allow for any kind of action that we would consider "good". He sees himself as superior to everyone on the planet, and views them as tools to be used for his eventual transition into godhood.

As for having a main character with a katana, that's really a silly argument. Cloud's Buster Sword at least has significance to his character in that it represents the identity he *stole* from Zack. Sephiroth's weapon is insiginificant in every way; it's just an insanely powerful weapon that the already insanely powerful antagonist uses.

Finally you again complain that Sephiroth pretty much doesn't say anything. Once again, Sephiroth isn't a boring, cliche villian that delivers one-liners and monologues. In a way, those sorts of exchanges that we are used to in our antagonists are an expression of weakness in the antagonist. It's an ego thing: "Appreciate my evil yet brilliant plan and acknowledge my superiority before I kill you!" Sephiroth doesn't have the weakness of such a frail ego. He's brilliant and superior to everyone, and he knows it. He doesn't need the acknowledgement or appreciation of those he is superior to. Wasting words on such insignificant beings is beneath him, so he doesn't waste time with it. Sephiroth toys with Cloud's mind by constantly tricking Cloud into believing he is about to catch up with Sephiroth, but that's more for his own amusement, and perhaps for revenge after Cloud unexpectedly overpowered Sephiroth in the Shinra reactor during the Nibelheim incident. He doesn't deliver that motivational speech to hate him because it's beneath him to speak to someone so pathetic, and from a plot construction perspective, we don't NEED that speech because we already have enough reason to hate him; he's trying to kill everyone and become a god, and he killed Aeris. Sephiroth lacks the boring, cliche flaw of most villians and has an ego that doesn't need to be stoked (instead being narcissistic to a genocidal degree) which I'd say is definitely a good thing!


3:Character connections are very important.I think sephiroth is maybe connected to three characters:Cloud tifa and vincent.The rest are more connected to shinra as a whole,which leaves the game with little connection to the villain between all of them.
Kefka is connected to each and every character.He harmed all of them in one way or another,cept maybe gogo.But gogo umaro and mog were all hidden characters,and we don't know anything about them.I got a really good reason to hate kefka,but i can't think of any reason why i should hate sephiroth.While i felt sad for aeris,it was because she was innocent,but even then,i felt little for her.

You should hate Sephiroth because he murders without cause or restraint. You should hate Sephiroth because he is unleashing hell on the planet in the form of the Weapons, and he is calling down a Meteor that is meant to wipe out all life, simply so that he can become more powerful. The only character truly connected to Sephiroth is Cloud; Cloud has a personal vendetta against Sephiroth for killing Aeris and because killing Sephiroth is a way for Cloud to obtain selfhood. The rest of the characters want to stop Sephiroth because he's trying to kill everyone on the planet. Wanting to stop planet-wide genocide is a pretty good motivation for most characters =P

4:The end.I was a bit disappointed with the ending itself.One bit that kind of disappointed me,was the bit with red XIIII.I saw him running around with his children and wonderedid the world get destroyed? what happened to cloud? I was confused as to what happened.

This could have been done better I suppose, but a lot of the aftermath is covered more in depth by Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberous and the other post-meteor games that have been released.

I was going to say something, but I read this.

yoshikosr2

The reason why kefka and kuja and even x death are better villains than sephiroth, is because his backstory is too sympathetic, and it makes no sense to go from good to evil.You are either are evil or you aren't, but a few actions isn't evil.You know who is evil? cloudia and dahlia gillespie, and they are religious nuts, and are are filled with religious righeousness.Sephiroth was nice to cloud. and actually was sad when his mom died.Hojo is way more evil than sephiroth,, because he doesn't care who he hurts as long as he gets what he wants.

Cloud and team were pretty boring in my opinion, and he was a loser.He didn't even think about his promise to tifa till she reminded him, and paid more attention to sephiroth that the team.

You talk about motivation, but sephiroth hardly killed anyone, or played trick's on anyone, he didn't even do selfish acts from the start, and was semi likeable because his tragic past makes for a great plot point to go after hojo.To me, this seems like he would be a better hero than confused cloud.

In order for the growth to matter, first your character needs a personality.Barret is no more complex than bartz is, but is more likeable than cloud, because we see he truly has something to lose against shinra(his adopted daughter) and we see him play and talk to her, so we see kindness behind his tough attitude.

Kefka is a better villain, because he is truly a evil bastard, and more than motivates you to kill him.Actions and motivations are linked, but also depends on the characters as well.I think barthandalus was fine for a villain, but the characters sucked, so it reduces his effectiveness if you don't care about the heroes.

Sephiroth wasn't even the main villain if FF7. Sephiroth, like Cloud, was controlled by Jenova. When Sephiroth was conceived, he already had Jenova's cells in him. Remember: Hojo and Lucretia, his parents, had Jenova's cells in them. He was created in order to create the perfect soldier (Jenova Project). The real Sephiroth died in the Nibelheim incident when Cloud threw him into the lifestream (though one has to wonder how Cloud could have been able to do such a thing). The Sephiroth we follow from Midgar to the Northern Crater was just a clone (he had the number 1 tattooed on him). The whole time he was controlled by Jenova, as all the clones were (think Jenova Reunion) and it was Jenova that caused him to do all that killing we see him do. Jenova is the real enemy in the game.... and it's Jenova that killed Aeris.

I don't think Sephiroth being a sympathetic villain was too bad because really who can relate to having a monster for a mother and being born a test-tube baby/freak experimental super soldier? Anyone? Besides part way through the story you realize that Sephiroth is no different than the run of the mill monsters that you kill in random battles.

No its not.

Sephiroth wasn't the real monster, because hojo was.If it wasn't for hojo, this would never happen, and he didn't want it, which makes him a victim, and makes him way less evil.Lets use real people shall we?

Dahmer was evil, because he didn't care about anyone, and disregarded the pain he inflicted to the families of those gay guys he raped and killed.
Stalin sent people to the gulags for disagreeing with him, and killed millions of russians.
Hitler was clearly a psychopath:narcissist, manipulative, and possibility stupid.
Ed gein was clearly insane, and was very confused.

Its important to show that the villain was evil all along somehow, if you plan on keeping it a secret for a while.Sephirothi is the least evil ff villain, or maybe second considering that golbez wasn't evil either.Hojo is far more a monster than sephiroth, and i think square enix took this from frankenstein by mary shelly, because it is similar in many ways:You got the dramatic scenes, and finding out he's a freak, and goes nuts.Of course he goes nuts, but that doesn't make him evil.

If I wrote that Sephiroth is the greatest villan in FF history, I was wrong... I wrote many posts that I can't remember.

Kefka is not the greatest villain because he was corrupted by Magitek. He got his powers from the Warring Triad.
Sephiroth is not the greatest villain because he was modified by Hojo. He got his powers from Jenova.

At least, both guys are a lot better than Orphan and Caius Ballad.

A good villain:

Zeromus because he has always been evil and he never stole powers form others.

If I wrote that Sephiroth is the greatest villan in FF history, I was wrong... I wrote many posts that I can't remember.

Kefka is not the greatest villain because he was corrupted by Magitek. He got his powers from the Warring Triad.
Sephiroth is not the greatest villain because he was modified by Hojo. He got his powers from Jenova.

At least, both guys are a lot better than Orphan and Caius Ballad.

A good villain:

Zeromus because he has always been evil and he never stole powers form others.


That is without a doubt, the dumbest thing i've seen said in a conversation about games.

Zeromus, like jenova, has no development, but is better than necron, because at least zeromus is talked about in the end.
Orphan:I remember some mention, but sucks.

In my opinion, i rate:
Kefka:1
Kuja:nd
X death:thrd

Kefka is the best ff villain in my opinion.I would have to think about best overall rpg villains.

Kefka is the best ff villain in my opinion.I would have to think about best overall rpg villains.

But there's no big difference between Kefka and Sephiroth:

Kefka poisoned a lot of people. Sephiroth burned a lot of people.
Kefka went berserk thanks to the Magitek. Sephiroth went berserk thanks to Hojo.
Kefka caused the Apocalypse. Sephiroth summoned Meteor.
Kefka became the god of magic. Sephiroth became an angel thing.

But there's no big difference between Kefka and Sephiroth:

Kefka poisoned a lot of people. Sephiroth burned a lot of people.
Kefka went berserk thanks to the Magitek. Sephiroth went berserk thanks to Hojo.
Kefka caused the Apocalypse. Sephiroth summoned Meteor.
Kefka became the god of magic. Sephiroth became an angel thing.

No difference you say? he killed and torments more people than sephiroth, and brings the world to ruin but wasn't satisfied until all life is exterminated.Sephiroth sits around twiddling his fingers for most of the game, till finally he makes cloud give him the dark matter, only to fail miserably, and keep respawning infinitely, like ganon, no matter how many times you kill him.Also:does nothing.Only jenova does the killing 99.9%of the time.He is also a rip off of setzer in style, but looks cool, so that is fine.

If I wrote that Sephiroth is the greatest villan in FF history, I was wrong... I wrote many posts that I can't remember.

Kefka is not the greatest villain because he was corrupted by Magitek. He got his powers from the Warring Triad.
Sephiroth is not the greatest villain because he was modified by Hojo. He got his powers from Jenova.

At least, both guys are a lot better than Orphan and Caius Ballad.

A good villain:

Zeromus because he has always been evil and he never stole powers form others.

He destroyed and the world and is still alive unlike certain characters I know.

What I think (my 2 cents) is that FFVII sucks. . . . For me, FFVII won an entire generation because it blowed their minds: the settings, the world, the story, the characters, the music, etc.

It blew their minds* What other elements make a great game then what you just pointed out?
It was its iconic nature that made it great, there
have been many advanced games which are not that well praised.
It had its flaws, of course, and how difficult it must be to create game that for everyone presents no flaws?
But one thing that you must keep in mind is this. A game at best, is an expedient, for small or large achievements doing rather pointless things. Its what makes you forget that you are playing a game at all, that makes a game great and FF7 (not for everyone) for such vast amount of people did just that, you could just be watching someone play it and get sucked into every good thing you just pointed out..

What could it have done to have met your expectations and not "suck"

I saw a review which expressed exactly why i think ff7 fails:

FF6s theme of love follows through really well, and nothing is lost because of the over complicated story ends up a convoluted mess like ff7.

FF7 has too much going on, and ends up being confusing because of poor execution(something which ff6 does well because its focused)
This problem i noticed after leaving midgar, and it just got worse, and it effected the characters, especially cloud and sephiroth.

FF6 treats every character as equal, even gau, through he gets less screentime.
FF7 gives most screentime to cloud aeris and tifa.Everybody takes a back seat to cloud.I think equal chance would give them better development.
The confusing plot hurts the characters.

The game has good ideas, but needs priorization, and concentration.FF8, 9 and 10 didn't suffer from this.
I liked the experimenting idea, but couldn't stand the backstory parts for cloud because they were confusing, as was some of sephiroth's past.Was he always evil? did he always have the ability to mind control? and frankly, this is why i think he could have been better.

Fanbase and squeenix:There is a lot of people i've seen on the internet with biased opinions:7 is bad 8 is better.7 is flawless and anyone who says anything else does so to be different(i hear this a lot) This kind of thing is simply closing your eyes with ears plugged going lalala i can't hear you, and i answer:How can we learn from our mistakes if we can't look at them objectively? i think dao(dragon age origins has better characters than ff6(because we see more distinctive differences between characters) I liked yuna the most in FFX cause i see the most differenc.She goes from following her tradition based on her blind belief system, to deciding for herself, and she bears her burden without a single complaint.Anyways, some people have skewed perspective, and limited experience(possibly due to nostalgia) or because they never played another game before it, and make stupid broad generalisations.
Another thing i see, is people saying:Sales=quality, which is 100 false.Sales/lack of doesn't always mean its good or bad.
Graphics also has nothing to do with the quality.

While i think it has its good parts, i seriously wish more people could put their love aside and acknowledge its flaws.I have talked to people who like ff7 a lot, and were very reasonable, but i see plenty who are blind.

I played crisis core, and it did fix some problems the original had for me.I liked zack, and thought cloud was a lot happier and easy going.

I also think it is the fanboys fault that SE has fallen in quality, because some people aren't objective, and blindly cave in to whatever they sell with the Square Enix logo.

Funny you should mention cloud being easy going in Crisis Core. It brings up something which has really bothered me for a while now...

Before the announced Advent Children, those of us that actually played Final Fantasy VII could tell you that in the beginning Cloud was a Mercenary with a Mercenaries spirit. He wasn't a whiney kid that said everything in depressed tones. One of his quotes "Just give me my money." He was also very theatrical in his entrances, he liked to show off. Cloud didn't fall into depression until his realization that he and Sephiroth were alike and that Sephiroth could telepathically control him.

The fan-ficts, Advent Children, and Crisis Core would have you believe that he was the emo we see today starting long before the intro to VII.

Vincent on the other hand was very much emo. All he wanted to do was die but he couldn't so he joined your part (I don't remember the full convo, haven't played in years). Vincent has always felt like a last-minute addition to me. Great character, actually he's my favorite character, but something about him just never "fit in" if that makes sense... idk maybe I'm just weird...

Another thing I disliked about VII was that if you were turn VII into a text-based game you wouldn't be able to follow the story because of how many plot holes that were left (which SE is now making bookoos of cash by filling). I believe that every game should have a very solid storyline. FFVII, to me, seems like a rushed game whose sole purpose was to show off the first ever 3-d RPG complete with CGI sequences. At some points the sequences of events felt recycled, for example; go into room, talk to bad guy, fall in a pit, fight a boss. This happens at least 3 times in the game (the brothel owner, one of the fights with sephiroth, and again at gold saucer albeit gold saucer had a short running around following barret before the boss battle).

Don't get me wrong, FFVII is one of the greats but I have to agree the it's not nearly what people have made it out to be.

Funny you should mention cloud being easy going in Crisis Core. It brings up something which has really bothered me for a while now...

Before the announced Advent Children, those of us that actually played Final Fantasy VII could tell you that in the beginning Cloud was a Mercenary with a Mercenaries spirit. He wasn't a whiney kid that said everything in depressed tones. One of his quotes "Just give me my money." He was also very theatrical in his entrances, he liked to show off. Cloud didn't fall into depression until his realization that he and Sephiroth were alike and that Sephiroth could telepathically control him.

The fan-ficts, Advent Children, and Crisis Core would have you believe that he was the emo we see today starting long before the intro to VII.

Vincent on the other hand was very much emo. All he wanted to do was die but he couldn't so he joined your part (I don't remember the full convo, haven't played in years). Vincent has always felt like a last-minute addition to me. Great character, actually he's my favorite character, but something about him just never "fit in" if that makes sense... idk maybe I'm just weird...

Another thing I disliked about VII was that if you were turn VII into a text-based game you wouldn't be able to follow the story because of how many plot holes that were left (which SE is now making bookoos of cash by filling). I believe that every game should have a very solid storyline. FFVII, to me, seems like a rushed game whose sole purpose was to show off the first ever 3-d RPG complete with CGI sequences. At some points the sequences of events felt recycled, for example; go into room, talk to bad guy, fall in a pit, fight a boss. This happens at least 3 times in the game (the brothel owner, one of the fights with sephiroth, and again at gold saucer albeit gold saucer had a short running around following barret before the boss battle).

Don't get me wrong, FFVII is one of the greats but I have to agree the it's not nearly what people have made it out to be.


Lets not forget the really bad translation which is worse than ff6 "My eyes are burning" and the juvenile text from barret full of symbols instead of swear words, which cid has too.A remake would probably fix this, but i think ff7 has got more than enough attention.I agree that ff7 is the attention whore of the series, always seeking the spotlight.I hear the japanese translation is better.

Cloud wasn't emo in crisis core, because he was really just a happy guy joking around with zack.
I also never watched advent children, or read that book either.

I think the golden saucer was a good mini game.Not extrordinarily long, and quite varied, unlike triple triad, which made its mini game important in gameplay, but tedious as hell.And blitzball was a little better, because it took less time, but was still annoying to get wakkas ultimate weapon.

as a personal preference... we preferred the censor and wish more games had at least the option of a censor.. We often have little kids around and we, ourselves, are not ones for swearing.... That and I think the symbols was more comical than juvenile..

You have to give VII some due credit though. It was the first game of its kind in terms of graphics and animations. The materia system was also pretty good. I know a lot of people disliked it but I personally found it a really nice way to customize your attributes. Knights of the Round (realm?) was way overpowered, though, and should have been left out of the game... In my opinion; if a game is too easy it's boring.

If they remake ff7, i hope they allow skippable summon fmvs, like FFX.When i think about ps1 ff games, i remember how i wish i could skip cutscenes, which is nice if its ultra long, and right before a really hard boss.As for censorship:I think they shouldn't use content for inappropriate ages, otherwise keep it the same.Also:I find barret kinda a stereotype of mr t, cause he talks really similar.I hear japanese are pretty racist, but i'm sure not all are.I think some of it has to do with the stye of that era too, cause daniel(black cop from parasite eve) Seemed like a stereotype of 80s cop movies so much, that it seemed like a parody.He reminded me of danny glover in lethal weapon a lot.

---------- Post added at 10:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------

Another thing:It was the first ff with 3D cutscenes, but not the first 3D game.The intro was impressive though.

First 3D psx game i played, was kings field 2, but kings field 1, is one of the oldest 3D games i played on psx, and it is a good thing ff7 hadn't come out then, because it really hasn't aged well at all.You can think of fully 3D World movement, but kings field beat ocarina of time to the finish line.I think we shouldn't concentrate on blocky characters either, because who cares.What is important, is fixing the translation errors, and explaining well what sephiroth and cloud were like before the original game in the remake if they do it.

More expressions can work for cloud for extra moment, like aerises death, and i bet kotor would look impressive in HD.

---------- Post added at 10:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 AM ----------

Another thing:It was the first ff with 3D cutscenes, but not the first 3D game.The intro was impressive though.

First 3D psx game i played, was kings field 2, but kings field 1, is one of the oldest 3D games i played on psx, and it is a good thing ff7 hadn't come out then, because it really hasn't aged well at all.You can think of fully 3D World movement, but kings field beat ocarina of time to the finish line.I think we shouldn't concentrate on blocky characters either, because who cares.What is important, is fixing the translation errors, and explaining well what sephiroth and cloud were like before the original game in the remake if they do it.

More expressions can work for cloud for extra moment, like aerises death, and i bet kotor would look impressive in HD.

Okay the fact you even know wha KotOR is makes you that much higher in my book lol ^^" (the old republic is free to play up to lv50 now which is high enough to complete the story so that your kotor knowledge base is complete ^^") but that's slightly off topic..

Final Fantasy VII was *full* of puns, I'm surprised there hasn't been a website dedicated to all the puns of the game. For example the Richard Simmons reference in the weightroom, there were lots of brokeback mountain references (idk if thats what it was called back...) there were more than a few old western puns, the A team puns, if I remember correctly there were also puns on other video games particularly in Gold Saucer but I'd have to play it again to be sure..

That was the cool think about the first seven games. They included many quarky puns. Link is in Final Fantast 6(?) as a grave which, to me, always seemed to be Squaresoft's official challenge to Nintindo (and Square won). You don't see very many things like that in the newer games. After Enix merged with Squaresoft the series went kind of downhill for me.

I thought ff7 came before brokeback mountain, and what is loveless play a reference to, if it is?

I've heard about kotor, but i haven't played it.I also played ultima series, which was too confusing for an 8 year old, because i couldn't figure out what to do.In ultima 3 exodus, on the old nes, i kept dying, and didn't know what the gem and hourglass were for, and i tend to jump in head first without reading the manuals.

I also meant to say knights of the round.I also played suikoden a lot, and loved enix before fusing with square in the early 90s.dragon quest is one of the best jrpgs i've played, and i loved terranigma, and illusion of gaia.I also appreciate elder scrolls after playing oblivion, and hope to be able to try daggerfall, or morrowind.I didn't like fallout 3 that much, because despite the actions you do, it boils down to like 2 endings that aren't that different.I think that fallout 3 could learn a thing or two from silent hill 2, because that game has a heck of a lot of really good endings.

Morrowind is just Skyrim with shotty graphics (though I suppose good for its time).

Brokeback Mountain is an incorrect phrase, I'm not quite sure what the actual phrase is, I apologize for speaking out of ignorance. :(

The Loveless play is reference to a play written by William Shakespeare that was never officially published (and I might add said play being truly Shakespeare's work is sketpical at best). The myth is that he was burried with the final act (disproven i believe) and wrote a curse on his tomb to ward off would-by graverobbers. The curse as follows;

"Good friend for Jesus sake forbare,
To dig the dust enclosed here,
Blessed be the man that spares these stones,
and cursed be he that moves my bones." - William Shakespeare, Chancel of Holy Trinity Church, Stratford-upon-Avon

There's a number of "lost plays" that have been discovered by Shakespeare and, unfortunately, I cannot recall which one it is that matches Loveless. If it interests you I'll confer with someone who may know better than I of the subject.

I should also state this is all information that I was told by a friend of mine who is more heavily into Final Fantasy than I am. Please take it with a grain of salt and don't credit me for any falsehoods for I could very well have been misinformed lol...

i still think ff7 is the overrated rpg of all time, because it is constantly put on a pillar, and showered with praise, while other games that are better, are put down.

lol nobody is disagreeing with you, m8.

I'm back! Life can be hard but I have to keep going until I die...

Ok, I read your message, I want to ask you one question: Do you think that FFVII fails because the game itself is bad or because it is praised by lot of fans? Think about what you think of the game as a full body (gameplay, graphics, music and plot) not about others opinions (casual gamers, fanboys and fans).

I'm back! Life can be hard but I have to keep going until I die...

Ok, I read your message, I want to ask you one question: Do you think that FFVII fails because the game itself is bad or because it is praised by lot of fans? Think about what you think of the game as a full body (gameplay, graphics, music and plot) not about others opinions (casual gamers, fanboys and fans).

1:The ending was dissapointing.
2:The story was an incoherent mess.
3:The side characters are under developed, because they take a backseat to cloud, and are mostly the same in the end.
4:The customization makes every character the same, minus their limit break.
5:Some limit break are more useful than others.
6:Sephiroth comes off as a comic book villain because of rapid change, with lack of details for his actions, he is evil for the story's sake.
7:Fanboys overhyping this overrated game, brought the community to being thought of of crazed fanatics.
8:Becausep of said fanatics, the fanbase was divided, and really good games got overshadowed.
9:FF7 had huge marketting campaign, and didn't fix the bad story, and script.
10:The endless amount of prequels, sequels, books movies, pc and possibly ps3 port, and countless cameos have worn out their welcome.

When are we going to see an ff9 sequel? or ff8 remake?

1:The ending was dissapointing.

The plot of the game is about life and the planet where they lived. At the end, people listened to Gaia's cries so they stopped harming their home and learned to live with nature and the Lifestream continued it's work. I don't find anything wrong with that ending.


2:The story was an incoherent mess.

Then the story of FFVI is a mess too, the objective of The Returners (Cloud and friends) was to destroy Gestahlian Empire (Shin�Ra) but Kefka (Sephiroth) appeared to change everything.


3:The side characters are under developed, because they take a backseat to cloud, and are mostly the same in the end.

Side characters? If you're talking about Vincent and Yuffie then FFVI fails too: Umaro's life is unknown, what about Gau and his father, Sabin and his teacher or the "Searching for Friends" events? That didn't affect the main story at all, even the "main character" Terra was overshadowed by Celes.


4:The customization makes every character the same, minus their limit break.

At least it makes things easier (If a wizard dies and you need magic then you're lost), what about FFVI and the espers?


5:Some limit break are more useful than others.

Each Limit Break is useful, it's up to you how to use them.


6:Sephiroth comes off as a comic book villain because of rapid change, with lack of details for his actions, he is evil for the story's sake.

I'm not a know-it-all but I think that his behaviour (details for his actions) is related to religion, science or Kabbalah (maybe to those three things) but if I see it in a less complex side, Sephiroth is a megalomaniac just like Kefka is a psycho.

Both characters were waiting for their moment of glory: Sephiroth thought that he was special so in that library his life changed and Kefka wanted more power to destroy everything and his life changed thanks to The Warring Triad.


7:Fanboys overhyping this overrated game, brought the community to being thought of of crazed fanatics.

That doesn't affect the quality of the game.


8:Because of said fanatics, the fanbase was divided, and really good games got overshadowed.

That doesn't affect the quality of the game.


9:FF7 had huge marketting campaign, and didn't fix the bad story, and script.

The marketing campaign doesn't affect the quality of the game.

To me, the story was great: Cid's dreams and feelings towards Shera (he saved her life). Yuffie stealing Materia to save her homeland. Vincent and Lucrecia stuff, Barret's love for Marlene and his deceased friends, Tifa's feelings towards Cloud and her fightning against Scarlet, The Turks love each other but they want to keep it as a secret, the battle against that One-Winged Angel, after that Cloud's rage killed Sephiroth and the story gets a wonderful ending.

My favorite... Aerith's innocence was simply lovely:
*Selling flowers in a dead place for just 1 gil while Rufus wanted to conquer the world.
*Cheering up Cloud after he handed over the Black Materia to Sephiroth (there's no voices in the game but I think that he was crying).
*She was noble, sweet and kinda goofy, that's why I think that she's one of the best characters in the history of videogames.
*I think that her personality reflects how humans should be, beautiful and noble creatures.

And of course, how the life was represented in the game.


10:The endless amount of prequels, sequels, books movies, pc and possibly ps3 port, and countless cameos have worn out their welcome.

That doesn't affect the quality of the game.

The plot of the game is about life and the planet where they lived. At the end, people listened to Gaia's cries so they stopped harming their home and learned to live with nature and the Lifestream continued it's work. I don't find anything wrong with that ending.

Partly true, but it isn't only about nature.FF7 has multiple themes:Playing god, Corporations bottom line is profit.

Then the story of FFVI is a mess too, the objective of The Returners (Cloud and friends) was to destroy Gestahlian Empire (Shin�Ra) but Kefka (Sephiroth) appeared to change everything.

Nope, because the details that make or break character, made no sense at times, like we never get detail on much about zach, or cloud before zach died.We also never see if sephiroth was even evil before going insane, and we know almost nothing of events before the original game.The whole thing on:Was jenova alive, and able to act on its own? because they only say that it was defeated, but not before infecting most cetra, and turning them into monsters.FF6 isn't cryptic at all, and everything is resolved in the end

Side characters? If you're talking about Vincent and Yuffie then FFVI fails too: Umaro's life is unknown, what about Gau and his father, Sabin and his teacher or the "Searching for Friends" events? That didn't affect the main story at all, even the "main character" Terra was overshadowed by Celes.

I am talking about:Barret, cait sith, tifa, red XIII and Cid.All of those get exactly one scene for themselves, except cloud.They aren't fully fleshed out, and seemed mostly the same.FF6 has far more noticeable changes from their character, like cyan dealing with his loss of his wife, and everyone he knew, he thought were dead.Cyan was a truly devastated person.

At least it makes things easier (If a wizard dies and you need magic then you're lost), what about FFVI and the espers?

The problem, is that most character become useless, except the strongest limit break(cloud)
In ff6, each character still have unique abilities nobody else can use, and they range from pointless, to a must.

Each Limit Break is useful, it's up to you how to use them.

I don't really like vincent limit break, and rarely use reds, because i prefer multiple hits for single bosses to do over 10000 damage


I'm not a know-it-all but I think that his behaviour (details for his actions) is related to religion, science or Kabbalah (maybe to those three things) but if I see it in a less complex side, Sephiroth is a megalomaniac just like Kefka is a psycho.

Both characters were waiting for their moment of glory: Sephiroth thought that he was special so in that library his life changed and Kefka wanted more power to destroy everything and his life changed thanks to The Warring Triad.

The problem with sephiroth, is he really needs an explanation, while kefka we can assume he was evil to begin with, but perhaps withdrawn and desired power.


That doesn't affect the quality of the game.



That doesn't affect the quality of the game.



The marketing campaign doesn't affect the quality of the game.

To me, the story was great: Cid's dreams and feelings towards Shera (he saved her life). Yuffie stealing Materia to save her homeland. Vincent and Lucrecia stuff, Barret's love for Marlene and his deceased friends, Tifa's feelings towards Cloud and her fightning against Scarlet, The Turks love each other but they want to keep it as a secret, the battle against that One-Winged Angel, after that Cloud's rage killed Sephiroth and the story gets a wonderful ending.

My favorite... Aerith's innocence was simply lovely:
*Selling flowers in a dead place for just 1 gil while Rufus wanted to conquer the world.
*Cheering up Cloud after he handed over the Black Materia to Sephiroth (there's no voices in the game but I think that he was crying).
*She was noble, sweet and kinda goofy, that's why I think that she's one of the best characters in the history of videogames.
*I think that her personality reflects how humans should be, beautiful and noble creatures.

And of course, how the life was represented in the game.



That doesn't affect the quality of the game.

---------- Post added at 05:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------

Another thing:I am amused when cloud confronts sephiroth when he was in the flashback, and he completely ignores cloud while cloud rambles on.

Kind of beating a dead horse here. The game already left its mark in gaming history and it was influential despite what you want to believe and it's irrelevant if you even like it or not.

Kind of beating a dead horse here. The game already left its mark in gaming history and it was influential despite what you want to believe and it's irrelevant if you even like it or not.

Wow. First of all, you're a couple months late, and if you haven't noticed, the FF sections of the Shrine haven't been very busy as of late...so your post is kind of a cheap shot at people who probably won't respond. Second of all, it doesn't matter how "influential" the game was or how big "its mark in gaming history" is. That's irrelevant to the main topic at hand: the opinions of what makes the game succeed or fail on its own merits. Your view presupposes that influential artifacts (video games, books, movies, songs, paintings, plays, or what-have-you) are not worth criticizing or analyzing because all that matters is whether or not it had any influence, and therefore it's irrelevant as to whether or not we like them or even whether or not they succeed at all. Let me tell you, there are plenty of influential things in the world that can be deemed failures when one considers principles of aesthetics or even of basic common sense. Influential and leaving a big mark in history do not by necessity mean good. It's a shame that some people want to shut down conversation and exploration as to what it is about the video games we enjoy (or not) at all.

First time posting on here in years.

Just replayed FFVII over the last 2 weeks or so. Figured this would be the best place to share my thoughts as the thread seems to be lively. Much easier game than I remembered it being, very quick playthrough.

When I was younger/ when the game came out, I wasn't good enough at the game/ mature enough to motor through it like I am able to now, and it slowed the game down so much that the story was never in question in my youth. Playing through it this time made the story seem extremely broken. It feels like someone came up with a great story for Shinra/ Midgar and then when they went to make the game, they realized they only had a fraction of what they would need to fill up a "game".

In the meantime, it feels like someone developed a pretty wild and epic story about Sephiroth/ Jenova/ Meteor/ Holy , etc.

When they realized that they would need both to make the game seem/ feel whole, they slapped the two together. At least, this is how it played out for me in my latest playthrough.

I only say this because the Kalm flashback is a terrible plot device used by lazy writers, and it doesn't fit the speed of the game at all. You've invested ~5-10 hours in Midgar taking down Shinra, then all of a sudden the game isn't about them at all. The Kalm flashback does nothing to inspire me to feel the need to play on.

In regards to OPs points about Sephiroth being significant at all - he isn't. Jenova + Shinra (Gast & Hojo) are the main players in the game. Sephiroth is more of a puppet than even Cloud was. He is totally under Jenova's influence throughout the portion of the game we play through. He does not have any individual thoughts or actions. This is how I interpreted the game, anyway.

If this post belongs elsewhere, please direct me. I seem to recall people being very finicky about bumping/ reviving threads on this site.

I knew that coming in here was a bad idea... :C

HOW dare you say it fails. :D

Its a great game for me.

Decided to play this game again after, well, since the last time I played which was 10 years ago give or take. I didn't notice this during the first playthrough but I couldn't help but notice how childish the characters were given their ages. These guys are supposed to be in their 20's and up and in some of the dialogue, character actions, and situations, it seems like it's a bunch of 13 year olds running around playing vigilante. I found this to be quite annoying and it started from the beginning until where I stopped (right when you can first start catching chocobos).

But besides this, I my previous thoughts on the game still stand; slow paced and uninteresting and a very boring score.

Thats the thing.I always thought as sephiroth as a massively overrated villain.He is not believable at all.To me, sephiroth feels like a 1 dimensional clich� anime villain.Cloud i think has his good points, but i really don't like him at all.He is your stereotype for anime clich� heroes today, and i blame cloud for characters like tidus and hope.

I don't hate ff7, i think its a good game, but i think its massively overrated, and overshadows things that it shouldn't, like ff tactics, ff9, and ff6.

I Think in fact:FF7 and FFX are the most overrated final fantasy games,FFX being worse on my list than ff7 cause of the pacing.

Too much focus from square enix on cloud and sephiroth, and not enough on the other characters.One of my biggest issues about ff7, is the lack of focus on other characters, like cid red barret cait sith, tifa and yuffie.
Yuffie has next to no backstory, or no backstory, and all other characters have almost no backstory.There is really nothing more to barret after correl is finished, and nothing for tifa.

Tifa was probably one of my favorite ff7 characters, because of her relation to cloud, and cid was my favorite, because of his dream being crushed.I could relate to seeing your dream being crushed, and not being able to follow your dream and feel bitter about it.

FF7 was overmarketed, the fanboys are the most annoying.

I still play the game from time to time and enjoy it.I admit it isn't as sophisticated as other rpgs are now but it's an old game and those were different times.
I certainly don't think it fails.To me to say it fails is ridiculous.I don't consider myself a fanboy.I don't want the game remade like other FF7 fans do.I do believe with wada out at Square that the chances it will be remade increase considerably and I wouldn't be surrpised to hear they are going to remake it in the next year or two.

I honestly hope to whatever deities there are in the Heavens above, that FFVII is NOT remade. It's over fifteen years old now, and there have been games which have done the whole fantasy rpg far better than FFVII did. I say, leave it as it is. If you don't like it on the PSX etc, then deal with it and move on.

SE needs to work on newer projects and not just drag their feet around as there are other companies in the RPG business, so if they want to remain 'king of the hill' so to speak, they need to keep bringing new and fresh ideas... instead of trying to relive their glory days.

Okay, I was willing to let this thread continue, but seeing as it strayed into inevitable 'FFVII remake' territory, I'm afraid it's overstepped it's mark. SE have stated that they will not be remaking FFVII 'until they've released a game that has surpassed it' - shorthand for, 'it will never happen'. Like it or hate it, that's the facts children - endlessly debating it serves no purpose other than leading into flame wars and trolling which I do not tolerate.

So hence, this thread is now off to the Void.